The Alliance For Natural Health

The Pulse of Natural Health Newsletter

Stay informed about what is hot in Washington and the states about natural health

Vaccines: A Simple Way to Discover the Truth

405

An important new bill requires our support. Action Alert!

Representative Bill Posey (R-FL) has introduced a bill that would direct the Department of Health and Human Services to conduct a comprehensive study comparing health outcomes in vaccinated and unvaccinated populations.

This is an incredibly important bill. The number of immunizations given to young children has increased dramatically over the years. By the age of two, children in 1950 received five shots; today, children receive as many as twenty-seven shots before their second birthday, with multiple shots often given in the same visit.

Public health officials insist that all of this is safe. You would think that such confidence would be underpinned by rigorous tests confirming the safety of vaccines, their ingredients, and the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) schedule in general. The astounding truth is that in many cases this safety testing has simply not been done. The National Academy of Medicine, which advises the government on issues relating to medicine and health, concluded in 2013 that “Key elements of the [CDC] schedule—the number, frequency, timing, order, and age at administration of vaccines—have not been systematically examined in research studies.” Our coverage of aluminum adjuvants in vaccines also found safety testing conspicuously lacking.

Doctors and public health officials tell parents with kids injured by vaccines that there is no proof of causality between the injury and the administration of a vaccine. Clearly, determining causality can be complicated, especially since vaccinations tend to be given at the same ages as neurological and developmental disorders can first emerge in children.

The obvious solution would be to study the matter thoroughly to get to the bottom of it—yet no comprehensive studies comparing the health of vaccinated and unvaccinated kids have been done. The studies that have been undertaken – such as the two papers led by Professor Anthony Mawson that we reported on earlier this year, suggest that vaccinated kids are, on the whole, sicker than unvaccinated kids.

Another reason for the lack of evidence is that attempts to publish this kind of work are usually met with vitriol and calls for retraction, as we’ve seen with Andrew Wakefield and his 1998 Lancet paper.

There is a growing movement to force vaccinations on the US public, either through eliminating exemptions to vaccination or by mandating certain vaccines for children to attend school. If those who wish to force vaccinations on families are so confident that vaccines are safe, why not do the science? What are they afraid of?

Action Alert! Write to your Member of Congress and tell him or her to support HR 3615. Please send your message immediately.

 

 

Share.
  • Nancy Page

    ALL vaccines are TOXIC FILTH with no beneficial ingredients whatsoever. They are designed and produced only to sicken and kill!

    • Tinker

      Polio is such a treat, eh? Smallpox? Great stuff!

      • President Borat

        all caused by filth, and vaccine filth. thankfully both of these were discontinued in the first world for the last 50 years so most of us never suffered the intrusion. any other disinfo you’d like to share?

        • physicsandchem

          Smallpox and polio only disappeared when vaccine use became widespread. It never mattered how clean or dirty the victims had been. When smallpox vaccination began, nobody was clean by current standards. It was effective anyway.

          • President Borat

            Liar. Smallpox and Polio vanished when the filth did. If it doesn’t matter how clean we are, then why is there no longer smallpox and Polio in the developed world yet the vaccinations have long since been stopped?

            Go stick yourself with dirty needles if you wish but leave the kids alone.

          • Tinker

            Pres,
            In defense of civility, just cause you disagree with someone does not make them a liar. Calling people names does not advance knowledge.
            The polio vaccinations have not stopped. Smallpox has been eradicated in the world, seemingly due to vaccination, the last case was in Somalia in 1977. The third world still has unsanitary conditions but not smallpox.

          • President Borat

            polio vaccinations are long stopped in the developed world. unless they started again? in my age bracket I can’t think of anyone getting that particular poisoning. children are routinely molested with MMR DTAP and who knows what else these days. Now I looked it up and “the internet” says most children ARE getting the polio sacrament. The Gods are Appeased! This year’s crop will come in again.

          • FallsAngel

            Polio vaccine is still part of the recommended vaccine schedule of every country in the world. In some countries, parents can be fined for not getting it for their kids.

          • Borat said, “Smallpox and Polio vanished when the filth did.”

            Please explain how smallpox was eradicated from India, Pakistan, and sub-Sahara Africa via ‘cleanliness’.
            Please explain how polio was eliminated from India and sub-Sahara Africa via ‘cleanliness’.

            Are you contending that India and Africa are spotlessly clean, and were at the time of disease elimination?
            India where there is, even now, a government campaign to get the population to stop defecating in the streets?

            Do tell.
            .
            Then tell the class why the ‘good food and cleanliness’ that eliminated polio from the US starting in 1955 didn’t affect measles. Was it the wrong kind of ‘good food and cleanliness’?
            Then explain what new kind of ‘good food and cleanliness’ was used in 1963 to eliminate measles. It must have been a very specific measles kind of ‘good food and cleanliness’ since it didn’t seem to affect any other disease such as rubella, mumps, chickenpox, etc.
            .
            And isn’t it amazing that all these various ‘good food and cleanliness’ types took effect exactly when the vaccines were introduced?
            Maybe the anti-vaccinationists have just renamed vaccines as ‘good food and cleanliness’.

          • President Borat

            it hasn’t, because those places aren’t clean.

          • Ah.
            So, according to you, smallpox and polio are still rampant in India and sub-Sahara Africa because they “aren’t clean”?
            And nobody except President Borat has noticed this amazing fact?
            .
            Have any evidence that smallpox is still to be found in India or Africa (or anywhere)?
            Didn’t think so.
            .
            It may be wise for the committee members considering Posey’s ignorant bill to view these comments and, indeed, these websites to get an idea of the mentality they are dealing with.

          • President Borat

            everybody knows that both in both Africa and India people live in dirty, abhorrent disgusting conditions. I am hardly the first one to see that JUST ASK AFRICANS AND INDIANS. That there are any of these diseases at all is only because it is a hard and difficult life there- bad water open sewage etc. India my God you have no idea how those people live it is awful.

          • Wasn’t it you who said, “Smallpox and Polio vanished when the filth did.”?
            And when I pointed out that India and Africa are hardly sanitary yet polio and smallpox have been eliminated even with the ongoing filth you responded, “it hasn’t, because those places aren’t clean.”

            Now you are stating that you agree that India and Africa are “dirty, abhorrent disgusting” an yet seem to imply that these diseases are still present.
            Have I misunderstood you?
            .
            Are you really saying that polio and smallpox are eliminated even though those areas are “dirty, abhorrent disgusting”?
            If so, you are contradicting your first statement made above – “Smallpox and Polio vanished when the filth did.”
            .
            I wish you’d get your story straight.

            Thanks.

          • President Borat

            Smallpox and Polio vanished when the filth did, obviously. Are the vaccines effective? I have no idea, and it’s irrelevant. We aren’t being vaccinated against those scourges anymore, and things are relatively clean these days. Ergo the disease is related to environment otherwise we’d still be getting sick.

          • And round and round we go…

            1 – Is there smallpox in India and Africa?
            2 – Is there polio in India and sub-Sahara Africa (except Nigeria)?
            Yes or no?

            You’ve already stated that “everybody knows that both in both Africa and India people live in dirty, abhorrent disgusting conditions.” and yet you now state, “…things are relatively clean these days.” completely contradicting what you stated less than 4 hours ago.
            As I said – I wish you’d settle on one story and stick to it.

            Are India and sub-Sahara Africa “relatively clean these days” or are they “dirty, abhorrent disgusting conditions”?
            You’ve said both and while everyone else’s heads are exploding yours seems impervious to this internal contradiction.

          • President Borat

            first, I have no idea whether smallpox or any other disease is particularly godforsaken country. I rely on the likely presumption that living in fecal matter is a bad thing.

            second, if you trying to probe my heresies, go find a member of your church. it ain’t me.

            third, I can only imagine that smallpox and polio vaccine have been effective in reducing but I’m sure not eliminating these dreadful scourges. So what? I’ve never been vaccinated against either but I’m pretty sure to get sick from living in dirty conditions. I’m entirely sure that the good fortune we have in eliminating smallpox and polio is due to cleanliness.

            None of this has to do with the original subject of course, which was the “immunization” sacraments that most babies are given these days. Measles Mumps and Rubella have clearly not been eliminated, nor should we want to. An ordinary childhood illness that brings lifelong immunity and further health benefits is a good thing especially when compared to the risks which are warned against on the MANUFACTURERS LABEL.

          • FallsAngel

            first, I have no idea whether smallpox or any other disease is particularly in some godforsaken country.

            Perhaps you shouldn’t be commenting on where it is then!

          • President Borat

            perhaps you should gain reading comprehension. asking stupid questions on the internet is a sign of retardation.

          • FallsAngel

            Using “retardation” like that is a sign of being a jerk.

          • President Borat

            so what

          • Mike Stevens

            Millions of people defecate in public spaces every day in India.
            http://www dot bbc dot co dot uk/news/world-asia-india-27775327

            But there is no smallpox or polio there.

            You claim that where there is filth, there is polio and smallpox, and that faeces is the cause of the infections.
            Can you explain why every bit of known science, medicine and epidemiology proves you wrong?

          • President Borat

            can you explain why splitting hairs over grammar and syntax makes vaccinations safe and effective? are feces a symptom of virus or a good breeding ground? If you want to say germs cause infections it hardly matters, but I never saw a healthy tree grow a fungus. Shyte literally happens and everyone knows that.

            If there is no smallpox and polio in dirty countries like India it looks like massively vaccinating the population did the trick. It would have been a lot easier to clean up but desperate times call for desperate measures. I’d rather be less desperate in the first place. The only way anyone I know is going to get polio is from the vaccine.

          • Mike Stevens

            So why don’t they have smallpox and polio?

          • President Borat

            they do actually. maybe the vaccines are effective in reducing the incidence. maybe things are getting better there too and it’s mostly a coincidence.

            you know what’s really effective, and avoids the damage from injecting poisons? staying clean in the first place.

          • Mike Stevens

            If you think Africa still is rife with smallpox and polio, can I suggest you alert the WHO, and not us?

            ‘I have no idea whether smallpox or any other disease is particularly in some godforsaken country’
            Oh, first you say that polio and smallpox are throughout Africa, now you decide you don’t know.

            Luckily people who matter do know these things.

          • kfunk937

            Wow, the text of that bill… Posey really is an ignoramous. But at least he’s washing a hand that feeds him (AoA donations) pushing a show bill that would waste enormous sums of money to no end were it to pass, while simultaneously voting to cut funding to disabled children and other Medicaid recipients, and to remove ACA guarantees of treatment for those with pre-existing conditions.

          • AlPhur

            Where can I see (unbiased) data of incidence per year in areas unaffected by better hygeine?
            In India, smallpox vaccination started in 1972, but there was a massively lethal epidemic in ’74.

            It may be cynical of me, but I feel one should consider that in order to promote sales of a vaccine, a corporation actually needs epidemics from time time time. I wonder who might be in a position to ensure that happens, without being found out?

          • Wow. I’ve never encountered anyone who doubted that polio was massively endemic in India in the pre-vaccine campaigns era.

            Sure, I can give you some references to India’s polio incidence pre-vaccine campaigns.
            You merely need to be literate to be informed:
            ncbi(dot)nlm(dot)nih(dot)gov/pmc/articles/PMC3734678/
            Eradicating poliomyelitis: India’s journey from hyperendemic to polio-free status
            T. Jacob John and Vipin M. Vashishtha
            Indian J Med Res. 2013 May; 137(5): 881–894.
            “Until early 1990s India was hyperendemic for polio, with an average of 500 to 1000 children getting paralysed daily.

            During the 1970s, 1980s and continuing into early1990s, polio was hyperendemic in India, with 200,000 to 400,000 cases annually15.”

            .
            And here is the above Ref.15:
            ncbi(dot)nlm(dot)nih(dot)gov/pubmed/6740090/
            Poliomyelitis in India: prospects and problems of control.
            John TJ.
            Rev Infect Dis. 1984 May-Jun;6 Suppl 2:S438-41.
            “…the incidence of acute paralytic poliomyelitis in India has been calculated to be 20-40 per 100,000 population per year; thus greater than 200,000 cases occur annually, or 500 every day.”
            Note that this was published in 1984.
            .
            And:
            hindustantimes(dot)com/health-and-fitness/india-completes-5-polio-free-years-last-case-reported-on-jan-2011/story-ZjeItJz3aea7ImdnVfCOeJ(dot)html
            Hindustan Times – Updated: Jan 13, 2016 20:46 IST
            India completes 5 polio-free years; last case reported on Jan 2011
            “Polio … used to cripple more than 50,000 children in the country each year in the early 90s.”
            .
            I’m sure you will dismiss the bleeding obvious with a handwave to some illusory conspiracy theory and continue to believe India didn’t have horribly endemic polio pre-vaccine.
            BTW – I would prepare to be laughed at if you plan to claim India and sub-Sahara Africa are now clean and sanitary areas. I don’t think even an 8 year old would fall for that.

            You’re welcome.

          • AlPhur

            Thanks for the info. It doesn’t quite answer my question but is very interesting and happily depicts something of an improved outcome.

            Did I invite the ad hominen & straw man just by asking for data and considering confounding? It occurs to me you could benefit from improving your reading skills. I felt you were replying in part to someone else in your head.

          • President Borat

            the magic spirits of the polio demon must have got them. I wish I had a picture of both real people that I’ve met who are crippled for life from THE VACCINE.

            Your caption is a lie. “Lots of kids” did not get polio “All the time”. Hogwash.

          • President Borat

            I think I’ll take my chances with sanitation and skip the poisoning. It’s not a question whether the vaccinations are effective, it’s a simple logic of cost/benefit. Obviously the industry of trapping animals in filthy conditions a d small cages has learned that to at least increase survival in that horror the poor critters must be inoculated.

            Smallpox is no longer vaccinated in the developed world. apparently the polio vaccine is being pushed still. Let’s take for granted that vaccinations stop the spread of diseases and work to eradicate them. So what? Is it possible to avoid the disease anyway? Are there also risks and costs to account? Can we at least admit that some people, especially children will suffer from the effects of the vaccine itself? Which schedule is the right one? Why did I get a measles shot at 7 but infants are now being given 27 vaccinations all at once? Is the cure worse than the disease? Which vaccine product is safest and most effective? I’m sure there are many questions we can ask without blindly taking this religious ritual on blind faith mixed ridiculous fear.

            Measles is a good thing it builds immunity and nothing more than a mild childhood illness. And the vaccine doesn’t work, so far as actually building lifetime immunity. I cannot possibly be immune to measles since my last shot was 40 years ago. This is true for most people, but somehow we have managed to survive.

            MMR is a bad thing and that’s what the FDA approved manufacturer label says by describing THE EXTREME RISKS like brain and nervous damage, diabetes, etc. no thanks.

          • You mean, the adverse events without regard to casuality part?

          • President Borat

            I dunno. If I get sick after drinking filthy water the two are probably related.

          • Re: You dunno. Read the inserts.

            Re: Sick after drinking filthy water. There is of course Hill’s criteria for that – not so much for vaccines/autism.

          • Mike Stevens

            Around 8 people per year on average in the entire USA developed vaccine associated polio. And that was only while oral polio vaccine was in use.

            If you know 2 people who have had it, you must have an absolutely gigantic circle of friends. Which I doubt.

          • President Borat

            Wrong it’s much higher. The standard for identifying an adverse reaction to any vaccine is a legal fiction. Anyone who got the polio vaccine and then got polio got it from the vaccine. How on Earth could this even be measured?? The magic doctor gods who always have the answers?

            The fact that the oral vaccine was discontinued on risk grounds alone should say something. And it just makes the point- it is better to live healthy than to inject poisoning.

            I am a well traveled and amazing person so I’ve actually met people OUTSIDE OF MY CIRCLE.

          • Mike Stevens

            Nope. The incidence of vaccine associated paralytic polio in the USA was 7-8 cases per year.
            Prevaccine, there were 20-40 thousand cases of wild-type paralytic polio per year.

            Which is the bigger number? http://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3e8f04d0af42058c59fbf34a5fd12faf6aad50c712116974f53fb9462acec7b3.jpg

          • President Borat

            you are trying to argue about something that isn’t in question either way. has the polio vaccine been effective? I have no idea but let’s say yes. What causes polio in the first place? Magic Demons? Ok, that’s not a bad way to describe the consequence of drinking poopy water. But it is the cleanliness that prevents the disease at all. It’s not like measles I don’t think, it’s not like chicken pox. or maybe it is? I wouldn’t really know. I do know that bad sanitation and bad water causes diseases like polio- that’s undeniable.

            So which populations benefitted from the polio vaccine? There have been a lot of very backwards and poor people in this country even until recently. I expect those numbers represent those populations. I also know literally two people in my experience who actually got polio- crippling, lifetime handicap- from the vaccine itself. I cannot imagine they were actually at any risk of getting wild polio otherwise, given their backgrounds, living conditions etc. I was never vaccinated against polio my own kids many others and never once thought we were at risk somehow. anymore than we expect to get smallpox.

            None of this has to do with measles mumps or rubella. per se.

          • Mike Stevens

            Ok, lets leave aside vaccination for a moment and look at how and why people can become infected with enteroviruses (of which polio is just one).

            First, one needs a virus to be exposed to, and then the virus needs to be swallowed/ingested. Clearly, any community/population where hygeine is very poor or there is a breakdown in waste disposal then this increases the chance of exposure, and therefore infection.
            This is why countries without sewerage/toilets, safe clean water supplies etc are so rife for enteric diseases.

            But personal contact is important too, particularly in the case of infants and children, who are too young to have developed the usual rules about personal hygiene and don’t know it doesn’t make good microbiological sense to stick a finger in one’s mouth after poking your friend up the bum.
            This type of transmission of the viruses takes place in other 1st world settings, and outbreaks occur, which is why in the early 1950s there were hundreds of thousands of cases of polio in the US, and tens of thousands of paralytic cases. Think about rota virus – despite universal access to clean water and good general hygeine, on average there were around 2-3 episodes of rotaviral diarrhoea in children on average in the USA under the age of 5 years.
            Polio just represented that on a slightly smaller scale.

            Now to vaccination:
            Polio vax was introduced in 1955, and the cases of wild polio vanished, virtually overnight. Yet kids continued to get rotaviral diarrhoea and other enteric virus infections… very odd, huh?
            Then around 15 years ago rotavirus vaccine was introduced in the US, and cases of rota cases plummetted, with between 40% and 95% reduction in cases.
            pubmed/23152260

            So washing hands, clean water and good waste disposal can only go so far sometimes – its quite clear that vaccines do their bit in preventing and eliminating disease, particularly polio. That’s all I am saying.

          • Well, there is the Cutter Incident to consider. However, I doubt that changes the numbers all that much.

          • FallsAngel

            Actually, in the 20 years that the US gave OPV after wild polio infections had ended, there were about 7 cases of VAPP/year.

          • FallsAngel

            OK, I edited my response to add a link, and it went into moderation! Here it is again, with a malformed link:

            Actually, in the 20 years that the US gave OPV after wild polio infections had ended, there were about 7 cases of VAPP/year.
            http://www. post-polio. org/ir-usa .html

          • Tinker

            P and C, confusingly, I saw a timeline where polio was starting to decline before the vaccine was introduced. Google for polio rates and follow link to procon dot org

          • FallsAngel

            No you didn’t see such a timeline. The biggest polio epidemic in the US was in 1952, as the vaccine was under development. The vaccine was released in 1955.

          • kfunk937

            @disqus_aJV2C6eyIu:disqus appears to means well, but has perhaps misunderstood or misinterpreted the steep epidemic trough (following a peak epidemic year) that mmediately preceeded vaccine introduction. Procon does show a morbidity (illness) graph, which as you correctly point out, shows no change in epidemic trough-peak trends, until polio vaccination caused an abrupt and sustained drop in case numbers.

            No more epidemics.

            It’s an understandable mistake if one doesn’t know that new cases will drop sharply* following peak epidemics, because there are not enough susceptibles able to catch and transmit that infectious disease. When enough non-immunes enter the picture (usually through births), herd immunity drops below threshhold permitting another epidemic. The epidemic cycle is itself indirect proof of how community immunity works. Nowadays we do it via immunisation, rather than risking illness, disability and death.

            *The slope and magnitude of the drop are related to the preceding peak.

          • Tinker

            Kfunk, see my comment to Falls. The chart is there, right or wrong. I did admit to confusion but the chart shows a steep drop before where the chart shows the introduction of the vaccine.

          • kfunk937

            Thank you for your reply. No disrespect was intended. I sought only to help clarify a bit on why you saw what you did. Hope it helps (particularly for lurkers)

          • kfunk937

            In the event you hadn’t seen my earler reply, now stuck in moderation, I wanted to be sure you knew I’d thanked you for your reply and taken your point. I’d hoped to explain why you saw what you did, primarily for the benefit of other readers. (My mistake was then to attempt a link to the Procon page.)
            😉

          • Tinker

            Kfunk, thanks, same thing happened to me. “They” must not like links. But “code” works, like I did, ie procom dot org and yes, thaks for pointing out epidemic cycles.

          • Tinker

            Falls,
            Er, I did see said timeline! You can too. Either follow my search suggestion or simply go to procon dot org. Clearly shows steeply falling rates starting around 1952 and shows a line for the introduction of the vaccine in 1955. Mind, I am not attesting to the correctness of the chart, merely pointing it out.

          • FallsAngel

            What kfunk937 said.

          • kfunk937

            I believe s/he understands (and may be employing socratic methods). 😉

          • FallsAngel

            When I see the same old memes, I tend to not be very patient, I must admit.

          • Mike Stevens

            Trend up, 5 year cycles.

          • AutismDadd

            That would be FALSEANGEL

          • Mike Stevens

            Timeline here:
            There was a peak a few years prior to vaccine introduction, but the natural cycle was for a peak every 4-5 years and the trend was increasing prevaccine. http://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5004791a9e5c829d56f45444b7fea4e581f44838f7b72cddcb9b09298ddf7461.jpg

          • physicsandchem

            What is the origin of this graph, please.

          • kfunk937

            It’s the same graph to which Tinker referred upthread (at that point from Procon, but originally from public health data reported to agencies such as CDC).

          • physicsandchem

            What public health data? Where was it published?

          • This will give you the data 1944-1993:

            Summary of Notifiable Diseases, United States 1993
            cdc(dot)gov/mmwr/PDF/wk/mm4253(dot)pdf

          • physicsandchem

            The link is to a 91 page report. I do not see the above graph. Please tell me what page it is on.
            I do not want to try to recreate the graph. I am asking you where I can find the original.

          • Ah, I don’t know where the original graph is. Check some of the other’s posts or you could download the image and g–gle search the image to find the source(s).

            The 1944-1993 polio incidence data is tabulated in that pdf as I stated.

          • physicsandchem

            Sorry. I am a research scientist and clinical laboratory manager. I learned long ago that when someone presents me with facts, the first thing I need to do is check the original source. If you cannot provide that, I have no reason to believe the material is accurate. It may be, but it is not reasonable to expect me to prove that.
            Be well.

          • The source data for 1944-1993 is in the document from the CDC I linked you to.
            If you chart it you get the same chart as the one Mike displayed and showing substantially the same data.

            I don’t see the problem with the information given to you.

          • physicsandchem

            “The link is to a 91 page report. I do not see the above graph. Please tell me what page it is on.
            I do not want to try to recreate the graph. I am asking you where I can find the original.”
            I do not see the data needed to create the graph. Can you please explain, in detail, how the graph was created.

          • As I said, I don’t know how the graph Mike Stevens displayed was created nor by whom.
            I gave you a link to a CDC pdf file that gives the data for 1944-1993 and reproduces that part of Mikes graph.
            I can’t understand why you can’t find the data tables in that pdf on your own.
            .
            The data for the years 1984-1993 are in Table 1 on pg 67.
            The data for the years 1944-1983 are in Table 3-6 on pgs 69-72.
            Plotting that data provides this 1944-1993 graph which matches the graph from Mike Stevens:

            http://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9f13ac24f13d6bf15f6150c3037daaa68fe93abaf33120fc46553daee011f344.gif

            hth.

          • Mike Stevens

            I supplied the source info for him, so let’s hope he’s happy now.

          • No comment.

          • physicsandchem

            Thank you. It looks like polio was virtually wiped out when the vaccines were introduced. That is what a good vaccine does when it is widely used.

          • Mike Stevens
          • AutismDadd

            skepticalraptor

          • physicsandchem

            Who or what is that?

          • AutismDadd

            Shill central

          • physicsandchem

            shill1.
            an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others.

            **********************************

            That is a very nasty thing to say to me.

            You don’t know me well enough to justify such behavior. If you don’t know the origin of the graph, or don’t wish to tell me, that is your right. Name-calling reflects no credit on you.

          • AutismDadd

            You asked me what skepticalraptor was. I told you. It was not directed at you. Go to that site and see what goes on there. It bans anyone who doesn’t follow and preach the pro-vaccine messages.

          • physicsandchem

            There has been a misunderstanding. Since you were replying to my comment, I thought your reply was directed at me.
            I believe that vaccines have saved far more lives than they have cost and that stopping vaccinations would be a disaster. I also recognize that most [all?] of the people who oppose vaccination have good intentions. Banning people from a discussion, for politely expressing their opinion, benefits only those with closed minds.
            I will discuss this in an adult manner with anyone.
            Be well.

          • AutismDadd

            The issue isn’t about vaccine benefits, its about vaccine injuries. Claiming benefits outweigh injuries is callous and dismissive and benefits vaccine proponents while denying those harmed of their truth.

          • physicsandchem

            There have certainly been many people harmed by vaccines. Anyone who denies this is either woefully ignorant or a liar. I assure you that I am neither.
            Very few things are 100% good or 100% bad. I have not yet met anyone who believes that they are safer in a car if they do not wear a seat belt. It is also true that some people died because a seat belt held them in place. I refused to wear a seat belt until a State Trooper was quoted saying “I never unbuckled a dead man.”
            If vaccines prevent a great many deaths, yet cause a much smaller number of deaths, that gives my children a much better chance of living if they are vaccinated, which is why they were vaccinated. There are some people for whom one or more vaccines are very dangerous and they should never receive them.
            If we stop all vaccinations, we will again experience the deadly epidemics that ravaged humans a century ago. I do not think that is a good idea.

          • physicsandchem

            Please give me the web address of whatever you are asking me about. There is so much stuff on P and C that I do not know what you are referring to.

          • FallsAngel

            We still have polio in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Nigeria.

          • physicsandchem

            I apologize for not being completely clear. Polio still exists in those countries because vaccine use is not widespread.
            My personal opinion is that we have not seen the last case of smallpox. I suspect there is still a vial of smallpox virus at the bottom of a freezer holding research specimens somewhere in this world.

          • kfunk937

            That’s a scary, long-shot, but rational possibilty. The second part of the question however is how probable that is… not much, but non-zero. That’s why the military services continue use and/or express interest in vaccinating service members. Honestly though, the risk does not appear high. Measles presents more risk under present real-world conditions.

          • physicsandchem

            My opinion comes from experience. I was born in 1945. In 1972 I started working in a research unit of a major hospital in a large east coast city. My first day on the job we found that two freezers containing research specimens had defrosted over the week-end. I was given the job of throwing the contents into a dumpster and cleaning up the mess. At the bottom of each freezer were several unlabelled vials and test tubes. There was no way to know what they contained. Nobody worried about smallpox then, in this country, because everyone was vaccinated at birth.
            However low the probability of a smallpox outbreak today, the result would be a pandemic of a deadly disease.

          • AutismDadd

            Nice to know you professionals and experts allow frozen contents you have no idea about to thaw and then you just throw it in a dumpster.

          • physicsandchem

            – The materials were not “allowed” to thaw. There was a power failure.
            – There was no history of work being done with dangerous material.
            – All laws and Good Laboratory Practices were followed.
            **************************************
            – Things that were safe, or considered safe years ago, may not be safe today. The world and our knowledge keep changing. People are imperfect, they make mistakes. Some are lazy. Some just don’t care.
            – My point is that despite WHO’s declaration that smallpox was wiped out, it seems reasonable to me to assume that there is still one or more samples of smallpox virus somewhere on the planet. What do you think?

          • AutismDadd

            Just waiting for a power failure. Nice to know there are bozo’s in charge of it.

          • physicsandchem

            I repeat:
            – There was no history of work being done with dangerous material.
            – All laws and Good Laboratory Practices were followed.
            *************************************
            What would you expect anyone to do differently under those circumstances?

          • AutismDadd

            A generator run by gas as back up

          • physicsandchem

            Since:
            – There was no history of work being done with dangerous material.
            – All laws and Good Laboratory Practices were followed.

            Why would you expect anyone to have installed a generator back-up? Monday morning quarterbacking is easy, but at the time the people involved believed they were taking all reasonable precautions. There was no reason to think otherwise.

        • Tinker

          Disinformation? No really, those things are not nice! Perhaps you misunderstood my irony, should have used a smiley or such?

        • Tinker

          Last time I looked, most of us in the “first world” still get vaccinated.

          • President Borat

            last time you looked no one has been vaccinated against polio or smallpox in about 50 years.

          • Tinker

            WHO reports like 91% polio vaccination rate in 2015 for the americas, like 86% worldwide

          • President Borat

            you know I had replied as much at another point but I have to say I don’t believe I know anyone who got a polio vaccine recently. I was vaccinated as a child, the typical series, and I’m sure that did not include polio. Polio has been virtually eradicated like smallpox and for the same reason: cleanliness. We don’t like e over a cesspool anymore. Do you really think that we wouldn’t get sick if those conditions were around again?? The disease has been eradicated because the conditions are not present. It can’t be from vaccinations because they were stopped 50 years ago, at least smallpox.

            I have met TWO people in my life who actually GOT polio and both from the vaccine itself. These are folk in their 50s now just old enough to still have been exposed to the ritual posioning. Myself, I’m certain I was never vaccinated against polio but I also enjoy clean water, effective sewage and don’t swim in toilets.

          • FallsAngel

            I don’t know how old you are, but. . . polio vaccine came out in 1955, and there is no upper age limit to get it. Parents rushed to get it for their kids. When the OPV came out in 1961, the US government sponsored clinics for it where everyone got vaccine. I remember my dad, b. 1914, taking it along with us kids. Polio incidence actually increased with increased sanitation.

          • Yeah, but you had to wait until 1963 to get the trivalent OPV like our family did. No problems with the wait, though, as we had all been vaccinated with the IPV years before.
            And as you remember, I remember as well. I remember my mother standing in line with everyone else and taking that little paper cup with the sugar cube for herself – even adults were scared of contracting polio.

          • President Borat

            polio is more likely with improved sanitation! ok go swim in a toilet maybe it’ll boost your immunity.

          • FallsAngel

            My response is in moderation h*ll for posting a link. I’m trying again. Sometimes such posts are approved, and sometimes they’re just “pending” forever.
            https://www. historyofvaccines. org/timeline?timeline_categories[]=52
            There is a correlation with improved sanitation and increased incidence
            of polio. I did not say increased sanitation caused polio.

          • President Borat

            I have to say this “correlation” is intuitively bizzare. but, I’m a jerk and what do I know anyway. We should logically wreck the sewers and shyte on the dining table so the children will be safe from polio.

            I sure wish I was less retarded an a smart thinker like SCIENCE PEOPLE

          • AutismDadd

            CORRELATION???????? NUFF said…what garbage

          • AutismDadd

            And you have proof sanitation caused an increase in polio? Then lets have it.

          • FallsAngel

            Polio is part of the routine vaccination schedule in every country. “An airplane ride away”.

          • President Borat

            I don’t think so. I was never vaccinated against polio, and none of the next generation was either.

          • FallsAngel

            I KNOW so! I worked in immunizations for 45 years, retired two years ago. Here is the US vaccine schedule. https://www. cdc. gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/child-adolescent. html

          • President Borat

            nope. I asked those relatives who would know, and it didn’t happen in my case. My own kids definitely not. I don’t even remember it being suggested. So let me ask you a question: is polio vaccine included with some other in a series, like MMR? Or is it given independent?

          • FallsAngel

            There are some combination vaccines with polio in them such as Pentacel (Dtap, Polio and Hib) and Pediarix (Dtap, Polio and Hep B). One or the other is given, if they’re used. There’s also a Heptavalent vaccine used in some countries that has DTaP, Polio, Hib and Hep B. Plus there is Kinrix (DTaP and Polio) for kindergartners.

            If you actually took your kids to a real doctor, s/he would have definitely recommended polio vaccine. Plus, polio is one vaccine even fairly anti-vax parents want their kids to have. They and/or their parents are still afraid of polio. As well they should be. It’s “an airplane ride away”.

          • President Borat

            good thing I didn’t listen to a real doctor! my God you would actually inject your own children with that crap?? but none of those combos existed when I was a kid and we bowed out early on the vaccine system. I remember mid 90s being told about the hepatitis B vaccine it was “recommended” but it wasn’t something that showed up 10 years earlier.

            It’s like cavities with you people- I’ve never had one since I stopped going to the dentist.

          • Mike Stevens

            A few people skip the recommended vaccines.
            What’s your point? That because you did, then everyone did?

          • President Borat

            it’s a point in a long thread. the more relevant point is that the only people who seem to get polio in a clean environment are the unfortunate who get it from the vaccine.

            does getting vaccinated against polio once bring lifetime immunity? is there such thing as a polio booster shot? how about smallpox? if cleanliness has nothing to do with health and the smallpox vaccine has been discontinued in the first world then why aren’t we getting smallpox anymore? has it been so eradicated that we could go back to pooping in the drinking water and still suffer no adverse effects?? I can’t believe that.

          • Mike Stevens

            Smallpox has been eradicated from the globe. There is no need for routine vaccination anymore. Simple, huh?

            There are a couple of research institutions keeping viral material, and some folk still get vaccinated just in case, like certain military and frontline medical personnel.

          • President Borat

            you don’t answer the question. is it now safe to drink dirty water?

          • Mike Stevens

            No, you might get campylobacter.

          • President Borat

            or polio

          • Mike Stevens

            You might, but only if you were in one of the few countries where the polio virus is in circulation, such as Afghanistan.
            Anywhere else, and you could eat other peoples’ poo three times a day and never get polio.

          • President Borat

            that may be true. but I can’t shake the sneaking suspicion that if I stay off the poo I can also afford to avoid the potential negatives associated with a polio vaccine. there are negatives, even if it’s better for many under certain conditions.

          • Mike Stevens

            Have you ever come down with a stomach bug?
            If you have, then that means you are not “staying off the poo” adequately to prevent yourself getting exposed to someone else’s enteric pathogens. Nobody is perfect, not even you.

            You don’t need to eat poo, you just need to touch a hand rail in a shopping mall, or a table top in a restaurant, and that could be sufficient.

            Now if you imagine nobody vaccinated against polio, and some kid flew into JFK airport from Nigeria… Within weeks, polio outbreaks could be sweeping the USA.

          • President Borat

            I’m not vaccinated against polio, and neither are many people we know. Somehow I never felt at risk or gave it even one thought. There are lots of people somewhere with all kinds of diseases but it probably takes more than just someone carrying the virus. Without the conditions how am I going to get sick? Now if I live in a Nigerian village that could be a problem.

            It is very interesting learn that polio is another kind of stomach flu. Is it really worth predosing with that flu in hopes of avoiding what is already an unlikely circumstance? What about simply treating the illness? I know that polio can be crippling: but was that inevitable or was that due to lack of good treatment?

            What is the real risk of first, getting sick from polio in an otherwise extremely clean and healthy environment; and second for that illness to progress to the point of serious injury; versus the various risks of poisoning from the vaccine itself?

          • President Borat

            btw that is additionally interesting about poo causing stomach flu. Ever since I stopped being a dirty child, it’s true I have never gotten the stomach bug.

          • AutismDadd

            They should have called it Poolio

          • physicsandchem

            I will try to answer your questions, at least those to which I have answers.
            – FIRST, pooping in the drinking water is never a good idea. I hope you were not serious.
            – How long immunity lasts depends on several variables, including the strength of the individual’s immune system. When I was in grad school [1966] one of the lab exercises was to culture smallpox virus. Just to be safe, we were all re-vaccinated. The vaccine “took” in everyone but me. I was again vaccinated, very aggressively, without effect. I was still immune from my childhood vaccination.
            – many years ago WHO declared that there was no smallpox on the planet. There had been no cases for several years. Commercial manufacture ceased and I was unable to get vaccine for my son, born in 1980.
            I hope I have answered your questions.

      • Nancy Page

        Tinker Troll!

        • physicsandchem

          It is not the beneficial ingredient that is important, it is the beneficial effect. I remember polio epidemics and polio wards. I am thankful that I do not remember smallpox epidemics. You have most likely never seen a victim of these diseases. The reason is vaccines.

          • President Borat

            I have personally known two victims of POLIO VACCINATIONS. I have never once heard of anyone getting smallpox or polio in my life and the practice of vaccinations stopped before I was even born. Go swim in a toilet and find out what causes polio. It’s a Physics and Chemistry experience.

          • Tinker

            Did they perhaps get vaccine from those two bad batches. So sad! Bad deal all around! But then you did not say they got polio, if not then one should realize that statistically, there are going to be folks that get sick immediately after getting vaccine ( or taking a walk) and in some cases it may indeed be causal, but a few is better than many many (unless of course you happen to be one of the few). Statistics is such a hard thing though, I certainly can’t do that math myself. But see my comment to Nancy about the number of folks I know of that did have it.

        • Tinker

          Nancy Page,
          Not a troll, having an opinion different from yours does not make one a troll. I shall resist insulting you back because that is silly s&$t.

          Beneficial ingredient: Killed or weakened or harmless virus or bacteria, stimulates the immune response. This was discovered way back when Jenner discovered that milk maids did not get smallpox, thought it was due to exposure to cowpox causing immunity, tried it out at large and found that exposure to cowpox did indeed prevent the disease.

          Thankfully, I lived through the polio epidemic without vaccine cause I was to young. The epidemic collapsed with the introduction of the vaccine. I have a friend who was not so lucky, he is pretty ok now though. I am pretty sure he was not dirty. The news back then was full of kids in iron lungs, not fun. Now I enjoy not catching the flu or at least getting a milder form, perhaps due to vaccination (or perhaps luck)
          My wife informed me that a childhood friend got polio, and also Donavan had it, still limps a bit

        • VikingAPRNCNP

          I would rather not develop any of the diseases that vaccination helps prevent.

          • Nancy Page

            I had mumps, measles, chicken pox and whooping cough as a child, all very mild diseases that help the immune system. AND, once one has had the childhood diseases, lifetime immunity is achieved. I’m 68 and in perfect health now.

          • Tinker

            Unless you get shingles! I sure hope you don’t, my next door neighbor did and it was quite nasty. Wikipaedia ( I know!) states that the death rate for measles in 1982 was 2.6 million per year.

          • JGC

            In 2015 worldwide more than 145,000 people died as the result of measles infection.

          • VikingAPRNCNP

            They are not minor diseases. To say otherwise is to ignore population level epidemiology.

            Wild measles infections increase all cause mortality. Basically measles erases the human immune system for up to 5 years following infection.

            1/250 cases of measles result in either death, cognitive or sensory disabilities.

            Vs

            <1 in 1000000 vaccinations might lead to death or anaphylaxis.

          • JGC

            You were fortunate. I remember measles as 10 days of real suffering in a darkened room because of light hypersensitivity, rash, etc. One of my maternal uncles doesn’t remember measles at all–at least not since it killed him when he was a child.
            Why don’t you ask Roald Dahl’s daughter what here experience of measles as a mild disease was? Oh, wait–that’s right. You can’t.

          • Nancy Page

            I plan to remain “”fortunate” by using NO DRUGS OR VACCINES! It has worked well for 68 years!

          • JGC

            I’ll note for a great deal of those 68 years you’ve been reaping the benefits of vaccines, I the form of herd immunity.

          • AutismDadd

            Oh brother, what a crock

          • JGC

            Measles does not help the immune system–instead, it wipes our immune memory, leaving you at greater risk of contracting other infectious diseases for a period of about 2 years following measles infection.

          • AutismDadd

            Please provide evidence of that occurring .

          • JGC

            See Long-term measles-induced immunomodulation
            increases overall childhood infectious disease mortality
            , Mina et al,
            PMID: 25954009

          • AutismDadd

            No show it allowing other infections

          • JGC

            Did you read the article?

          • AutismDadd

            Can’t supply it?

        • JGC

          Nancy, can you provide actual evidence demonstrating that any of the ingredients found in vaccines formulations are toxic or otherwise harmful at exposure levels achievable by routine childhood vaccination?

          No?

          Thought not

          • Nancy Page

            ALL vaccine ingredients are TOXIC FILTH! Do your own research!

          • JGC

            I’ve done my own research, and I’ve found no evidence that any of what you characterize as all caps ‘toxic filth’ is actually toxic or otherwise harmful at exposure levels achievable by routine childhood vaccination.
            Typing the words in capital letters is not sufficient to make such evidence appear out of thin air.

          • Nancy Page

            Pertussis vaccine can cause encephalopathy (brain swelling) and death.

          • JGC

            For every 100,000 DTaP vaccinations given we observe 1 excess case of encephalopathy, the majority of which do not result in death.

            Pertussis infection, on the other hand, has been seen to result in in between 0.30 and 1 death for every 1000 people infected.
            Simply put? Since switching to an acellular rather than whole cell vaccine, encephalopathy is seen to be a very rare adverse reaction, even more rarely resulting in death, associated with DTaP vaccination while pertussis infection is seen to cause deaths with at a much higher incidence rate.

          • Nancy Page

            My 5 month old baby girl nearly died in 1980 of encephalopathy following a dpt “booster”, our LAST vaccine. The dreadful infant mortality rate in the United States (WORST on earth) exposes the toxicity of these vaccines, LIAR TROLL JGC, Just Generated by Computer!

          • JGC

            The US does not have the highest infant mortality rate, Nancy. We’re around 6 per 1000 live births, while India (for example), is around 40 per thousand.

          • FallsAngel

            It looks like this site doesn’t allow links, so I’ll have to post a malformed one.
            https://www. cia. gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank. html
            #1. Afghanistan 112.8 per 1000 live births
            #169: US 5.8 per 1000
            #192: EU average 4 per 1000
            #188 Australia 4.3 Also gives Hep B at birth and has a similar schedule to the US

          • Mike Stevens
          • No, encephalopathy is brain disease. Brain swelling is encephalitis (you may recognise the -itis ending from ‘joint swelling’ which is commonly rendered as arthritis)

            That said, how does the chances of either or death compare to the chances from pertussis?

          • AutismDadd

            Then how come they have been called unavoidably unsafe and in 1986 government stepped in because they were being litigated out of business?

          • JGC

            We’ve been over this: the government stepped into create a no-fault compensation system because pharmaceutical companies were abandoning developing and producing vaccines: even thought the manufacturers were winning all but a handful of suits the revenue generated by vaccine sales was insufficient to offset the legal costs of defending against lawsuits. At the time they intervened there remained only one company producing the DTP vaccine, and it had announced plans to cease production. The government acted to ensure the uninterrupted availability of this and other vaccines that are critical to the nation’s public health.

            Unavoidably unsafe has a specific legal meaning, AD. It doesn’t mean that a product can be expected to frequently cause harm (i.e., that the product itself is inherently dangerous) but instead that it cannot be expected to never cause harm. Antibiotics and pretty much all food products are just as unavoidably unsafe as are vaccines, since there’s always the possibility of causing an allergic reaction.

          • AutismDadd

            Yea, just like I said without all the blah blah.

          • JGC

            Details matter, AD–at least they do to those of us with a genuine interest at arriving at the truth of an issue.

          • AutismDadd

            I prefer as the crow flies rather than a grand tour of Blah blah ville

          • JGC

            Which is why you completely misunderstand the safety and efficacy of vaccination–you can’t be bothered to acquire a meaningful in-depth knowledge of the evidence.

          • AutismDadd

            Hardly, and what a weak response. Cut to the chase. Enough beating around the bush. No more re-hashing of the re-hash no more meta-analysis of old redundant science. If you want to preach in depth knowledge and evidence separate the seed from the chaff

          • JGC

            Seed from the chaff? Simple: the risk associated with routine vaccination is orders of magnitude lower than the risk associated with electing not to vaccinate and leaving yourself or your children vulnerable to infectious disease.

          • AutismDadd

            Still can’t get that comprehension thing working for you. Deflection noted and expected.

          • Nancy Page

            Encephalopathy (brain swelling) is a documented reaction to the pertussis vaccine, listed as a side effect along with death, on the package insert.

          • JGC

            I posted this above, but I’ll repost it here so you don’t have to go looking:

            For every 100,000 DTaP vaccinations given we observe 1 excess case of encephalopathy, the majority of which do not result in death.

            Pertussis infection, on the other hand, has been seen to result in in between 0.30 and 1 death for every 1000 people infected.
            Simply put? Since switching to an acellular rather than whole cell vaccine, encephalopathy is seen to be a very rare adverse reaction, even more rarely resulting in death, associated with DTaP vaccination while pertussis infection is seen to cause deaths with at a much higher incidence rate.

      • Tinker

        I apologize for my sarcastic tone. Simply said, those diseases are truly horrible.

      • harh

        I suggest you read more about what the records or history of this epidemics show before you make a comment in favor of vaccines.

        • Mike Stevens

          Back at you.

    • Katt G.

      I know the big difference between my kids and my sisters children (who had all there shots) is that my kids were sick a lot less often then my sisters kids always sick with something.

      My kids are far healthier.

      • President Borat

        I think I wrote something wrong and backwards many apologies

      • Nancy Page

        My grandchildren (5) are all uncircumcised and unvaccinated. ALL are brilliant, beautiful and healthy, much healthier than my own 3 vaccinated children were. My youngest daughter nearly died of encephalopathy (brain swelling) at age 5 months in 1980 after a dpt booster. Those were our LAST vaccines. No so called “vitamin k” shots either.

    • TheTruthIs…

      Agreed Nancy! They are attempting to destroy immune systems of children so they can get them on the treadmill of big pharma drugs. Or even better chemo and radiation down the road. It’s all about the profits. Disgusting industry that covers-up the truth and always has.

      • Can you explain countries with socialized medicine, then?

      • JGC

        Your evidence that routine childhood vaccination destroys a child’s immune system would be what, truthis? Be specific.
        I mean, you do actually have some–right?

    • jimmygulag

      slow down nancy.

      • Nancy Page

        Time is off the essence! Babies are being injured and killed every day by the TOXIC FILTH called vaccines! I’m 68, and the medical establishment is NOT getting the message! Waiting profits NO ONE!

        • jimmygulag

          Yeah. Well, Polio was very scary for my parents age group. that would be married around the mid or late 30’s. i know a woan who lost her mom to polio. not it is almost gone. small pox vaccine worked. and many others.
          i think the main complaint about flu vaccine is that it is so simple a viral RNA that it can mutate every year, and we can only duplicate the shell of the viruses we know.

        • JGC

          “Babies are being injured and killed every day by the TOXIC FILTH called vaccines!”
          Citations needed: your evidence that the risk of death associated with routine childhood vaccination exceeds the risk of death associated with remaining vulnerable to the infectious diseases those vaccines protect against would be what, exactly?
          Consider measles: worldwide it measles infections killed more than 145,000 people.
          Do you have any evidence demonstrating that the MMR vaccination killed as many or more people worldwide in that same year?

          • AutismDadd

            Deflection noted. Do vaccines harm consumers, yes or no. It doesn’t involve being vulnerable to infections. And only Mr Deflection keeps using it as a reason to disregard the harm done to those following your advice. You know the anti-vaxxers who represent victims.

          • JGC

            What deflection? NP has made an extraordinary claim. I’ve simply asked her to provide evidence in it’s support.

            “Do vaccines harm consumers, yes or no. It doesn’t involve being vulnerable to infections.”

            yes it does: the only way to accurately assess whether or not a medical intervention is appropriately safe is by considering relative risk: how do the risks associated with the intervention compare to the risks associated with failing to intervene?

            ” And only Mr Deflection keeps using it as a reason to disregard the harm done to those following your advice.”
            I’m not disregarding harm. The adverse events causally associated with vaccination are well characterized: those that are common are also both minor and transient (e.g. soreness at the site of the injection, low-grade fever) while those that are serious (e.g., encephalopathy) are all but vanishingly rare. Any rational consideration of relative risk comes out overwhelmingly in favor of routine vaccination.

          • AutismDadd

            So YES vaccines harm consumers. yet you need to attach a page of blah blah to answer that?

          • JGC

            I’m simply unwilling to participate in a game of “Have you stopped beating your wife”.

          • AutismDadd

            Hilarious. As you claim facts are important. I guess only certain facts are and others are to be swept under the carpet. Weaele like behavior noted.

          • JGC

            No facts are being swept under the table. There are adverse reactions associated with vaccination. They are well characterized. Those that are common are both minor and transient (e.g. soreness at the site of injection, low grade fever) while those that are serious (e.g. encephalopathy) are all but vanishingly rare. Autism spectrum and other neurodevelopmental disorders are not causally associated with vaccines.

    • And your evidence that anything in vaccines is TOXIC FILTH with no beneficial ingredients whatsoever is what, again? Remember you should be able to show toxic filth to humans at exposure levels and administration routes achievable by routine childhood vaccination.

      Can you explain countries with socialised medicine?

      • Nancy Page

        Read the manufacturer’s list of ingredients, available online!

        • JGC

          I’ve read the manufacturer’s list of ingredients. What’s your point? Nothing on the list has been shown to be toxic or otherwise harmful at exposure levels achievable by routine childhood vaccination.

          • President Borat

            how about the manufacturers list of HARMFUL SIDE EFFECTS?

            (just google “mmr warning label fda”)

            ADVERSE REACTIONS

            Panniculitis; atypical measles; fever; syncope; headache; dizziness; malaise; irritability.

            Cardiovascular System
            Vasculitis.

            Digestive System
            Pancreatitis; diarrhea; vomiting; parotitis; nausea.

            Endocrine System
            Diabetes mellitus.

            Hemic and Lymphatic System
            Thrombocytopenia (see WARNINGS, Thrombocytopenia); purpura; regional lymphadenopathy; leukocytosis.

            Immune System
            Anaphylaxis and anaphylactoid reactions have been reported as well as related phenomena such as angioneurotic edema (including peripheral or facial edema) and bronchial spasm in individuals with or without an allergic history.

            Musculoskeletal System
            Arthritis; arthralgia; myalgia.

            Nervous System
            Encephalitis; encephalopathy; measles inclusion body encephalitis (MIBE) (see CONTRAINDICATIONS); subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE); Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS); acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM); transverse myelitis; febrile convulsions; afebrile convulsions or seizures; ataxia; polyneuritis; polyneuropathy; ocular palsies; paresthesia.
            Encephalitis and encephalopathy have been reported approximately once for every 3 million doses of M-M-R II or measles-, mumps-, and rubella-containing vaccine administered since licensure of these vaccines.

            THERE’S MORE THE LIST IS LONG

          • JGC

            yes, there is more–in fact, this isn’t a quote from the MMR package insert and you’ve omitted the critical first paragraph of the section.

            Here’s what it actually looks like in the package insert (bold for emphasis):

            ADVERSE REACTIONS

            The following adverse reactions are listed in decreasing order of severity, without regard to causality, within each body system category and have been reported during clinical trials, with use of the marketed vaccine, or with use of monovalent or bivalent vaccine containing measles, mumps, or rubella:

            Body as a Whole

            Panniculitis; atypical measles; fever; syncope; headache; dizziness; malaise; irritability.

            You’ve given us a list of outcomes that have been reported to have occurred following vaccination, not a list of outcomes known to be causally associated with MMR vaccines.

          • President Borat

            wrong. “without regard” is a neutral statement because they have to cover their arses. if we regard causality, all of these injuries are associated with actual cases of wild measles, mumps and rubella. also related to injecting aborted fetal tissues and monkey pus, besides heavy metals.

          • JGC

            ‘Without regard’ indicates that causality has not been demonstrated.

            “all of these injuries are associated with actual cases of wild measles, mumps and rubella”
            Which is a strong argument in support of prophylactic MMR vaccination to reduce the risk you’ll suffer these injuries as the result of contracting a wild type measles infection–agreed?

            No vaccine formulation contains monkey pus, fetal tissue, or elemental heavy metals.

        • I’ve read it. So what was the evidence for your claim?

      • President Borat

        well here’s what the FDA says are possible risks:
        (just google “mmr warning label fda”)

        ADVERSE REACTIONS

        Panniculitis; atypical measles; fever; syncope; headache; dizziness; malaise; irritability.

        Cardiovascular System
        Vasculitis.

        Digestive System
        Pancreatitis; diarrhea; vomiting; parotitis; nausea.

        Endocrine System
        Diabetes mellitus.

        Hemic and Lymphatic System
        Thrombocytopenia (see WARNINGS, Thrombocytopenia); purpura; regional lymphadenopathy; leukocytosis.

        Immune System
        Anaphylaxis and anaphylactoid reactions have been reported as well as related phenomena such as angioneurotic edema (including peripheral or facial edema) and bronchial spasm in individuals with or without an allergic history.

        Musculoskeletal System
        Arthritis; arthralgia; myalgia.

        Nervous System
        Encephalitis; encephalopathy; measles inclusion body encephalitis (MIBE) (see CONTRAINDICATIONS); subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE); Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS); acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM); transverse myelitis; febrile convulsions; afebrile convulsions or seizures; ataxia; polyneuritis; polyneuropathy; ocular palsies; paresthesia.
        Encephalitis and encephalopathy have been reported approximately once for every 3 million doses of M-M-R II or measles-, mumps-, and rubella-containing vaccine administered since licensure of these vaccines.

        etc… go look it up it’s at the touch of finger these days

        • First off, it’s your claim, it’s your responsibility.

          Second, why are you listing adverse events? That’s not what you were asked about.

          • President Borat

            it’s not my claim, it’s published by the FDA. disqus won’t let me post links but who cares it’s there at a Google.

            adverse events are of paramount importance. repeat the question then?

          • Sorry, it’s your claim of what the FDA claimed.

            And yes, I did ask you about toxic filth. You still haven’t supported that claim.

          • President Borat

            I can see why you are called DipTurtle.

        • Mike Stevens

          If you are concerned about the possible effects that a weakened, puny, vaccine-strain virus can have on you, then you should really take a look at the long list of complications caused by the virulent, wild-type natural viral infections.

          • President Borat

            except it’s not a “weakened strain”. it’s dead monkey parts and heavy metals and aborted babies and only God knows what else. Given at random times by willful men who pretend to know better than a natural immunity and health system developed over millions of years of evolution. Clearly, there is far more injury happening from the so called “cure” than the disease given the huge numbers of especially children who display any of the identified symptoms and who almost always were also vaccinated. Very often, becoming sick and then injured immediately after the shots.

            Measles Mumps Rubella itself are ordinary childhood illness. There is practically zero risk of injury or complications and it can easily be treated. It also brings lifelong immunity while the so-called vaccinations only last few years. It’s also likely to keep us healthy in older age as part of the immune building process.

          • Mike Stevens

            “except it’s not a “weakened strain”. it’s dead monkey parts and heavy metals and aborted babies and only God knows what else.”

            You know Borat, I just went and looked at a vial of MMR-II in the fridge.
            I couldn’t see an aborted fetus in it, nor any monkey organs. Perhaps I shall go for an eye check tomorrow.

            I wonder if my apple juice contains rotting tree roots and dead worms. What do you think?

          • President Borat

            it might if blended down and reconstituted into a plain clear liquid. It won’t hurt much to drink rotten worms but all I have to do is see the many victims of your vaccine cult.

          • Victims such as? Causative link, please.

          • President Borat

            already posted it dummy

          • Sorry, you haven’t. Adverse events are not side-effects.

          • President Borat

            you should get some shots

          • Who says I haven’t?

          • President Borat

            rabies shots i meant

          • Still doesn’t answer the question.

          • President Borat

            all answers are found in the warning label. I believe the FDA

          • JGC

            Good to hear you trust the FDA. Here’s what they have to say about the safety and efficacy of vaccines (bold for emphasis):

            “Vaccines, as with all products regulated by FDA, undergo a rigorous review of laboratory and clinical data to ensure the safety, efficacy, purity and potency of these products. Vaccines approved for marketing may also be required to undergo additional studies to further evaluate the vaccine and often to address specific questions about the vaccine’s safety, effectiveness or possible side effects.

            According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, vaccines have reduced preventable infectious diseases to an all-time low and now few people experience the devastating effects of measles, pertussis and other illnesses.

            The Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research (CBER) regulates vaccine products. >b>Many of these are childhood vaccines that have contributed to a significant reduction of vaccine-preventable diseases.”

          • President Borat

            all of that may be true so what? it doesn’t address risk/reward or what the alternative is, or why I should care to begin with. I’m a lawyer after a manner of speaking and somewhat used to reading between the lines. It’s what they say, how it is composed together, leaving the reader to jump to his own conclusions and make false comparisons. It’s all relatively true and also relatively meaningless. Whoever wrote that did a very good job. I still know the adverse effects of vaccines, a pretty good idea about the risks of wild infection, and the chances of complications. If anything, what I really want to know is how to best treat any illness when it strikes. Most injuries are from complications related to poor care, poor environment and other avoidable factors.

            It’s definitely not “genetic”, or “unknown” , or “spooky”.

          • JGC

            Risk/reward is addressed: vaccines which have been rigorously tested to ensure they are safe and efficacious reduce preventable infectious diseases to all-time lows resulting in few people experiencing the devastating effects of infectious diseases.

            ‘I still know the adverse effects of vaccines, a pretty good idea about the risks of wild infection, and the chances of complications”
            Consider measles: what is your understanding of the risk of an adverse outcome as the result of MMR vaccination versus the risk of an adverse outcome as the result of a measles infection?

            “Most injuries are from complications related to poor care, poor environment and other avoidable factors”

            Citations needed.

          • 655321

            That’s priceless. Your friend Dorito Reiss, the (un)paid vaccine salesperson said something almost as equally amusing, she posted this statement on facebook, “A strong immune system isn’t necessarily a good thing.”

          • AutismDadd

            Did you here sanitation increased polio outbreaks? That’s the knew mantra from this gutter trash

          • 655321

            Hey, maybe it did. Can I get paid for saying that???

          • AutismDadd

            Contact the CDC maybe a new career path

          • Don’t you think the inserts are reliable, numbers? I mean, they tell you right there that they’re listing things without regard to casuality.

    • JGC

      And your evidence that this is the case would be what exactly, Nancy? Be specific.

    • And you expect that to be taken seriously do you?

  • L Livingston

    as long as the study isn’t done by big pharma!

    • Tinker

      2nd that! Yes!

    • Truth59

      I totally agree on this. The test needs to be done by an HONEST 3rd party without promises of Pharma money or meddling.

      • Have you read gadad et al?

        • AutismDadd

          Ever see a psychiatrist?

  • Candy Lyon Sligo

    I don’t understand why we have to vaccinate our children even though there is some of us who do not believe in vaccines. Well here is what I found out. Certain doctors will contact the child protective services with the basis of neglect if you do not vaccinate your child. Most schools require children to be vaccinated in order to attend and if this requirement is not met your child may not attend school. With the choice of not vaccinating your child comes with a lot of harsh realities, such as no school because of this choice you are now subject to be incarcerated and your children now become ward of the state. I’m sorry, but I believe too many of us have fallen pray to what the government and society dictate. Most of us meaning the American populous do not realize that we have a voice and that We hold the power to this country. Thanks to a document written For the People By the People called the Constitution of the United States. That can not be infringed upon or manipulated to fit somebody else’s agenda, we have the right to stand up, shout, and fight back to be never forced into something we do not believe in.

    • President Borat

      that nonsense. no one makes your children get vaccinated and even public schools generally have waivers. people viciously defend vaccination because it is only the latest bizzare sacrificial religious ritual to come down the pike and also we would all perish from the wrath of the gods if their wasn’t “herd immunity”. actually that’s about it, the immunity of the herd to common sense.

      • People defend vaccination because it saves lives. Anti-vaccine rhetoric is almost exclusively based on long-debunked falsehoods. In the first 70 years of the 20th Century over a quarter of a billion people died of smallpox. It was eradicated through an immunisation programme and there have been no deaths from smallpox for approaching half a century. Polio was also nearly eradicated, but that effort was set back by anti-vaccine lies.

        • President Borat

          that really has nothing to do with measles mumps rubella diptheria pertussis or tetanus. Smallpox and Polio are cause by filthy conditions. “Vaccines” are just a general idea each one is specific just like the diseases themselves. I’m quite certain that my best defense against polio and smallpox is cleanliness. We are at no risk for polio so long as conditions stay clean enough. The problem is failing to grasp the difference between public policy and individual benefits vs risks. All vaccinations are poisons by definition. They aren’t tonics, salves or immune boosters. Instead the whole premise of vaccination is that a little up front is better than a lot later. But the environmental condition would have to exist in order to even begin thinking about what is otherwise a drastic remedy.

          Sometimes it’s good to start a fire in order to put one out, this is true. But just starting fires for no reason is often a catastrophe. And if we must start a fire for the greater good, then at least recognize that there are consequences. I might burn down your house to save the town, but that still leaves you with a burned down house. It wasn’t an accident and it isn’t from some mysterious cause called “genetics”. Your house was fine before we burned it down. Fire burns houses.

          • Mike Stevens

            “Smallpox and Polio are cause by filthy conditions”
            I thought we’d sorted this one before, Borat!

            They are caused by their respective viruses.
            Poor hygiene can facilitate spread of polio, but smallpox is spread by direct contact and inhalation as it is mainly airborne, so the state of one’s toilet is irrelevant

          • President Borat

            we did, more or less. I think it’s established that polio and smallpox relate to bad conditions. it’s an entirely separate question whether the vaccine is effective or appropriate under a given circumstance. maybe we haven’t sorted that one out yet, but I’m still the president of Kazakhstan.

          • Mike Stevens

            I think it’s clearly established you don’t really know much about the diseases or their epidemiology, and even less about their vaccines.

          • President Borat

            I know enough not to drink the Kool aid

          • President Borat

            Poliovirus is transmitted from one person to another by ***oral contact with secretions or faecal material from an infected person. ***

            ***Most poliovirus infections cause asymptomatic ****viral replication that is limited to the alimentary tract. However, following an incubation period of approximately 7–10 days (range, 4–35 days), about 24% of those infected develop clinical signs such as fever, headache and sore throat ***(considered a minor illness).***

            ***Paralytic poliomyelitis, ***experienced in ***<1% of poliovirus infections, ***occurs when the virus enters the central nervous system and replicates in anterior horn cells (motor neurons) of the spinal cord

            can read, too. Straight from the WHO website.

          • Mike Stevens

            Yup, it’s caused by a virus.
            Have a cookie!

          • President Borat

            no, it is caused by FAECAL MATTER. No feces no virus. You have the cause and the effect backwards. So keep your poison cookies and go wash your damn hands instead.

          • Ron Roy

            Smallpox was actually cause by the bite of a bedbug.Doctor Charles A.R. Campbell proved this in the 20s but the medical community ignored his discovery.

          • Mike Stevens

            Thanks Ron.
            Actually this is an interesting read:
            http://www dot popsci dot com/charles-campbell-smallpox-and-bed-bug
            I never knew this historical blind alley existed until you alerted me to it.

            What other ancient, discredited, fanciful notions about infection do you believe?
            Malaria is caused by breathing “bad air” maybe?
            HIV is due to the CIA contaminating polio vaccine with a synthetic virus?
            Ebola was bioengineered by white supremacists?

          • Ben

            Stoop waving your “woo stick” Mike. We all know that malaria is a mosquito-born protozoan. Every disease has it’s vector…

            HIV is due to the CIA contaminating polio vaccine with a synthetic virus?

            And now your diverting attention away from the role you played in spreading HIV! Mike “Patient #3” Stevens contaminated an entire continent after letting Gaëtan Dugas pound him in the αss on a flight from Liverpool to Calgary.

            He’s been telling people that it was the CIA since 1985.

          • Ron Roy

            ”Dr. A.R. Campbell (another Great
            Scot) was a Texas doctor who discovered that smallpox was only
            spread by the bite of the bloodsucking insect called the BEDBUG or Cimex
            Lectularius. Cimex is the Latin for “bug” and
            Lectularius is Latin for “couch” or “bed.”
            Dr. Campbell proved that smallpox is not contagious and is
            not an airborne disease.

            Dr. Campbell graduated from
            the University of Tulane Medical School and was licensed to practice
            medicine by the State of Texas. He was president of the San Antonio
            Academy of Medicine and was a member of the Bexar County Medical Society.

            Dr. Campbell was another
            victim of the Medical Inquisition. This great doctor, scientist and
            naturalist is not mentioned in any of the hundreds of biographies on
            medical men and their discoveries.”

          • Mike Stevens

            “Dr. Campbell was another victim of the Medical Inquisition. This great doctor, scientist and naturalist is not mentioned in any of the hundreds of biographies on medical men and their discoveries.”

            You know Ron, my great uncle wasn’t mentioned as a great scientist either. He was always a bit rankled about that. He could never understand why his discovery that animals could be brought “back to life” by inserting gunpowder in their rectums and lighting a candle under their tails was never accepted by the scientific community.

          • Ron Roy

            I always suspected that you were a bit ” touched ” but you confirmed it.

          • JGC

            I’ve been looking for Campbell’s proof, Ron, but I can’t find any articles he’s authored making a case that smallpox is insect borne rather than airborne indexed in PubMed.
            Can you provide a title or citation?

          • Proponent

            Now this is some convincing, indisputable proof that smallpox is not contagious and is not an airborne disease!

            “My Observations on Bedbugs.” By CHARLES A. R. CAMPBELL, M. D. San Antonio, Texas.

            What was your favourite part, Ronald P. Roy?

            … …

            Waiiiit a sec.. you didn’t read it, did you!?

            Well, I did.. and here’s my favourite part where he tries to underscore the resilience of the almighty bedbug..

            “The ability of bedbugs to remain under water for an indefinite time is also established by the following experiment: I first took a pole about seven feet long, and putting a number of these bugs on one end of it, I placed this end almost at the bottom of a tank containing about five feet of water; immediately the bugs began crawling through the water and up the pole; I then changed ends and reversed the operation, submerging the bugs on top of the pole again in the water, and I continued this operation for five hours without intermission–but to all appearances the bugs were not in the least injured, notwithstanding the fact that, in addition to the submersion, they had traveled a distance of nearly 550 yards.”

          • Ron Roy

            I read all 262 pages of his book. Bats Mosquitoes and Dollars and I strongly recommend it. Buy it and read it folks and see why the MEDICAL MAFIA squashed the discoveries of a man who had no axe to grind but was only searching for the truth. Ignore Proponent.

          • Proponent

            Ron Roy: “I read all 262 pages of his book. Bats Mosquitoes and Dollars and I strongly recommend it.”

            You read the entire book, did you, Ronald P. Roy?

            What are your thoughts about Campbell’s exhaustive scientific approach towards proving that smallpox was not contagious? You know, the incontrovertible proof stuff?

            Like.. this ‘experiment’..

            “I then began to experiment with this disease directly by contact and to expose some person to it who had not had it. I selected as this person one whose movements I could at all times control and understand, and, therefore, I chose myself. As even the air itself, without contact, is considered sufficient to convey this disease, and touching the clothes of a smallpox patient considered equivalent to contracting it, I exposed myself with the same impunity as my pest-house keeper, who is immune, having had the smallpox. After numerous exposures, made in the ordinary manner, by going from house to house where the disease was and demanding, under legal authority, the removal of the patients, as well as members of the family, to the pest house, I have never conveyed this disease to my family, or to any of my patients or friends, although I did not disinfect myself or my clothes nor take any precautions whatever, except to be sure that no bedbugs got about my clothing.”

            Next up..

            ‘Beating the rug’! .. (*nudge nudge.. wink wink*)

            “Another one of my experiments was thoroughly to beat a rug in a room, only eight or ten feet square, from which had just been removed a smallpox patient.”

            I tell ya.. Campbell doctor dude? That guy? He definitely sciences!

          • AutismDadd

            Thomas Mohr is back.

          • Ben

            Where?

          • AutismDadd

            check my home page about Bastyr University. He’s doing his bash homeopathy thing.

          • Ben

            Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

          • AutismDadd

            First Campbell now Wakefield

          • He did not “prove” any such thing.

          • Ron Roy

            Yes he did.

        • Nancy Page

          Liar troll, prove that.

        • Ron Roy

          The smallpox vaccine was responsible for an increase in deaths from smallpox.

          • JGC

            Citations truly, madly, desperately needed

    • harh

      Well said, Thank you.
      I believe in prevention via good nutrition not vaccines, I have not had the flu in over 20 years.
      I am concerned about our children being injected with MERCURY AND ALUMINUM in the vaccines.

      • Mike Stevens

        “I believe in prevention via good nutrition not vaccines”
        Unfortunately, the best nourished body in the world will not prevent you catching some of the potentially very serious infections. Some of these are even typically worse in those with good immune systems (eg flu, SARS, malaria).

        I am concerned about our children being injected with MERCURY AND ALUMINUM in the vaccines.”
        You are if you say you are, but needlesly. Thimerosal was removed from vaccines in 2001 as a precaution, and only exists in a minority of multidose flu vaccine vials. Aluminium is not shown to be harmful at the doses received by vaccination, and infant exposure from soy milk and formula is equivalent to that from any vaccine. Levels are below minimum risk level guidelines.

        • Also, compounds are not….

          (all together now)

          • Ben

            When are you going to stop with your prefrontal lobotomies?

        • Ben

          Unfortunately, the best nourished body in the world will not prevent you catching some of the potentially very serious infections.

          You don’t have the authority to say that Mike.

          • JGC

            When one has evidence there’s no need to presume authority.

          • Ben

            He didn’t present any evidence.

          • JGC

            Nor did he claim authority. If you want evidence that good nutrition/lifestyle alone is insufficient to protect against infectious diseases, look no further than the 1824 measles epidemic in Hawaii.
            The indigenous islanders lived what most alt-health proponents would call an ideal life, with a completely natural diet rich in protein and fresh vegetables, fruits, etc. got plenty of healthy exercise in the course of their day to day activities, etc. If anyone should have been proof against infection as a consequence of lifestyle and nutrition it should have been them, but measles still killed a third of the population.
            .

          • Ben

            … look no further than the 1824 measles epidemic in Hawaii.

            Look no further than 193 years ago?

          • JGC

            How is it not an appropriate example, regardless of it’s longevity? A significant population living as close to the healthy and well nourished life style as can be reasonably achieved, an uncontaminated environment, no GMO or processed foods, etc.–and still highly vulnerable to infectious disease when exposed.

          • Ben

            I didn’t say that it wasn’t a good example. I just found your quote, “look[ing] no further [than 1824]” was humorous because this is actually looking rather far (193 years).

            This is interesting. The native Americans were likewise reported to have been subject to infectious disease spread by Europeans. How much this is historical revisionism to mitigate the massive imperialistic genocide remains to be seen. It might take some serious historical investigation to determine the true extent of that plague.

            I can’t think of any recent examples of natives dropping like flies on contact with Europeans. Areas of the South Pacific were recently “discovered” only since the 60s, and I haven’t heard of any unusual deaths besides that which came from radiation and the neurological conditions purportedly caused by β-methylaminoalanine (although some researchers have measured extremely high aluminum levels in the brains of Guam natives.)

          • JGC

            Stephanie Bier has estimated that nearly 20% (~1,500 people) of the South America’s Yanomami population, which first began sustained contact with the world in the 1950’s, were killed due to infectious diseases brought into the area by outside workers for which the Yanomami had no immunity, esp. malaria, tuberculosis, and smallpox. (Bier, Stephanie Conflict and Human Rights in the Amazon: The Yanomami, ICE report 19 Conflict and Human Rights in the Amazon: The Yanomami., Aug. 2005.)
            The Xeta tribe was discovered in 1956, soon after experiencing a major outbreak of measles.
            There have been significant measles outbreaks in the Tasaday tribe as well.

          • Ben

            Maybe someone should make aluminum-free vaccines to give to the natives.

            Calcium phosphate has been used with success.

          • JGC

            There is no elemental aluminum in vaccine formulations, ben

          • Ben

            What do you mean by elemental? Be explicit.

          • JGC

            Metallic Aluminum versus an aluminum containing compound or salt. Claiming there’s aluminum in vaccines because they incorporate aluminum salts as adjuvants is as misleading as claiming there’s mercury in vaccines because some incorporate thimerosal as a preservative

          • Ben

            So by “elemental” you really meant to say “metallic”. You should have just said “metallic”.

            It is however common to call the aluminum ion (Al³⁺) aluminum. This is standard and obvious, as can be seen my looking at the names of aluminum compounds.

            When I said “aluminum-containing vaccines” I was obviously referring to aluminum ion. Nobody thinks that metallic aluminum is in vaccines. Why would you even say that?

            The aluminum ion is what causes neurological issues, not metallic aluminum or aluminum in the Al⁰ oxidation state. This species cannot even exist an an aqueous environment.

            Iron usually exists in a few oxidation states in the body. Hence, the ferrous (Fe²⁺), ferric (Fe³⁺), and perferrous (Fe⁵⁺) ions all have different names. But aluminum exists in only one biological state so it’s common to simply say “aluminum” like it’s common to simply say “calcium” or “magnesium.” These are not redox-active so it is unnecessary to specify its oxidation state (i.e. calcium (II), Ca²⁺).

            Both aluminum hydroxide and aluminum phosphate are ionic compounds which slowly dissolve and release the Al³⁺ ion, the only form that it can exist within the body. Sorry for not making that clear, but this is what I was refering to.

          • JGC

            Excellent: we’re now talking about the same thing: aluminum ions released from the aluminum salts used as adjuvants in vaccine formulations.

            What evidence is there that aluminum ions are toxic or otherwise harmful at exposure levels achievable by routine childhood vaccination ?

          • Ben

            Aluminum ions are always more harmful than the calcium ions that should be used instead.

            There is convincing evidence that it crosslinks the τ-protein in the brain. And the fact that it displaces Fe³⁺ from the tissues should be cause for concern. Free iron ions undergo uncontrolled redox reactions leading to lipid peroxidation. The products of this are highly-reactive dialdehydes that crosslink proteins at lysine residues (Schiff base). This is well established, and the malondialdehyde assay is the classic way* to quantify lipid peroxidation in vitro.

            *But it’s not the coolest or most accurate way. The coolest way to quantify lipid peroxidation in vitro is by measuring the light emitted. Singlet oxygen (¹O₂) is fluorescent and gives off a characteristic red light, as can be seen here. Singlet oxygen is an intermediate in lipid peroxidation and the spectra emitted corresponds very well to the MDA assay values.

          • AutismDadd

            His education most likely

          • AutismDadd

            Look up Desoto a Spanish explorer. His excursions into the area of Florida apparently killed millions

          • Ben

            I think it’s the high tryptophan diets of the Spanish. The blood Trp/ΣLNAA* ratio is a very good predictor† of brain serotonin synthesis. The corn and potato diets of the indigenous North Americans would have a ratio of around 3, while the Spanish would have been around 6.

            These high serotonin levels can turn people into buffoons, and conquistadors.

            *This is the ratio of tryptophan over the sum of phenylalanine, tyrosine, leucine, isoleucine, and valine. These are the one that most compete with tryptophan for brain uptake.

            †Pearson coefficients as high as .95 have been calculated by Fernstrom.

          • AutismDadd

            It was more that they spread disease.

          • Ben

            But the serotonin probably made them buffoons. Why is it that Europeans were the primary imperialists while most cultures respected boundaries?

            Who knows. This is my Serotonin Theory of Imperialism. It could be wrong. There are other ways to explain it as well.

            Just trying to get the word out that the blood tryptophan ratio effects serotonin synthesis in the brain. In this way, serotonin levels can be directly controlled through diet.

          • AutismDadd

            It may just be the power and greed thing.

          • sabelmouse

            🙂

    • Some people don’t believe in vaccines, others don’t believe the earth is round, or that it’s billions of years old. The correct scientific term for these opinions is: wrong.

      • Nancy Page

        Earth is flat, and God is watching us ALL!

        • Nancy Page said, “Earth is flat, and God is watching us ALL!”
          .
          Hokey Smokes, Bullwinkle!
          .
          Behold the level of abject ignorance in the anti-vaccinationists.
          “Vaccines are poison!”
          “The earth is flat!”
          “God is watching us ALL!” (Which god? Odin? Zeus?)
          .
          I hope the committee staffers take a few minutes to read some anti-vaccine websites to get a feel for the level of crazy that Posey is foisting on them.

          • Mike Stevens

            Oh, and “Nuclear weapons do not exist!”, apparently….

          • Mike Stevens

            I thought she might be kidding on, but no. Truly wonderful.
            “Earth is FLAT, enclosed under the FIRMAMENT described on page 1 of the Bible.”

            And then there’s this!
            “A teaspoon of organic vinegar with mother, mixed in water, stops heartburn in minutes, since heartburn is caused by lack of stomach acid.”

      • President Borat

        I believe you are retarded

        • Anybody who even uses the term retarded, let alone as an insult, is lacking in humanity. I believe you are an idiot, and my belief is backed by rather more evidence than yours.

          • President Borat

            ha ha that’s hilarious go look up the definition of ‘idiot’. It literally means ‘retarded’.

  • Truth59

    Mega doses of vitamin C on a daily basis will cure almost all of these diseases, if not all. It’s not harmful in any amount. Dr. Frederick Klenner tested them. So it’s all about money, nothing else.

    • JGC

      “Mega doses of vitamin C on a daily basis will cure almost all of these diseases, if not all”

      Citations truly, desperately, madly needed.

      ‘Dr. Frederick Klenner tested them”
      Whlie Klenner claimed to have tested megadose vitamin C as a treatment for viral diseases (including polio, which he insisted he was able to cure (via vitamin C supplementation and massage) none of his claims have been validated. Instead studies by other virologists quickly rebutted Klenner’s claims.

      • Truth59

        I would trust Klenner and Dr. Cathcart and Abram Hoffer and Andrew Saul (who was trained by all of them) over the virologists who refuted these claims. The non-believers were probably told to and/or paid by Big Pharma. Whereas the other four doctors never took Pharma money.

        • JGC

          What other four doctors are you speaking of, and what evidence have you that they were paid by pharmaceutical companies to misrepresent the efficacy of Vitamin C megadoses as a cure for polio?

          Meanwhile, I’m still waiting for you to provide actual evidence that “Mega doses of vitamin C on a daily basis will cure almost all of these diseases, if not all”

  • Thomas Waldenfels

    Well written. Thanks. Bill Posey is a good man, rare among political types.

    Of course I support the bill, but don’t expect it to go anywhere. Too many congress-weasels are in the pocket of the big pharma combine, and you’d never get honest study results out of the CDC if it were undertaken. They falsified the MMR study results and destroyed evidence. That’s not opinion. It’s documented fact. They’d do whatever they had to do to falsify the results of this study as well. I have zero doubt about that. It’s a criminal organization and an enemy of the people.

    One point and one question: We already have a comparison between vaccinated and unvaccinated populations, and any unbiased person can draw everything they really need to know from the results.

    Amish kids don’t get vaccinated … and they don’t develop autism or the raft of other diseases common in vaccinated populations, such as asthma, ADD, allergies … all of which are rising along with the number of vaccines given.

    Question: The issue on the table here isn’t the virtue or dangers of vaccination per se. It’s whether or not the Congress should mandate that Health and Human services … and their corrupt minions at the CDC presumably … conduct a study comparing outcomes in the vaxxed and unvaxxed populations in an attempt to determine SCIENTIFICALLY if there’s a problem with the vaccine program we’re not seeing, BECAUSE NO ONE HAS LOOKED.

    Do any of the vaccine defenders reading this and commenting below OPPOSE such a study, and if so, why? You can’t be anti-science since you falsely base so many of your arguments on “science” … never mind that it’s been falsified or never actually been done.

    For those who oppose the study, what are you afraid of?

    • JGC

      I don’t oppose the study: I just don’t see the necessity as very large scale retrospective epidemiologic studies comparing outcomes in vaccinated, partially vaccinated and completely unvaccinated subjects have already been done, by multiple independent researchers, public and private public health agencies and academic institutes in multiple nations. None find any evidence of a causal association between routine childhood vaccination and poorer health, nor of a causal association between vaccines and ASD’s or other neurodevelopmental disorders.
      At this point it’s fair to say that if we ever successfully identify all the factors involved in the etiology of autistic spectrum disorders routine childhood vaccination won’t be on the list.

      • FallsAngel

        I oppose the study. It is a violation of the Helsinki Accords to withhold proven medical interventions for the purpose of “study” or anything else.

        • JGC

          I didn’t notice the details–surely Posey isn’t calling for a prospective study rather than one or more additional retrospective ones?
          He has to know that no IRB on the planet would approve such a study.

          • FallsAngel

            The article didn’t say. That’s what a lot of uninformed people mean when they talk about vaccinated vs unvaccinated studies. (I’ve been through many “disqussions” about this.) Posey, though, doesn’t know what he’s talking about and probably doesn’t know what he is recommending.

          • JGC

            Posey probably doesn’t care what he’s recommending, as long as he’s providing fan service for his anti-vaccine constituency.

      • Thomas Waldenfels

        Name them.

        • JGC

          I suggest you start with Anders Hviid (PMID: 12421889)
          who, for example, looked at incidence of autism versus immunzation status for literally every child born in Denmark between the years 1991 and 1998 (537,303 children in total).
          See also Hviid’s PMID: 14519711, DeStefano’s PMID: 23545349, Halsey PMID: 11331734

      • Barzini

        no such study has ever been performed as you well know

        • JGC

          Multiple large scale retrospective epidemiological studies have examined health outcomes as a function of vaccination status.

          Of course if you’re complaining that a prospective vaxed versus in-vaxed study hasn’t been done you’re correct– and what’s more will never be done because conducting such a study would be completely unethical: no IRB on the planet would approve such a study.

          • Barzini

            But there are huge numbers of unvaccinated kids – my own kids are just two examples

            I would willingly allow them to participate in such a trial, as would the parents of just about all the kids I know at the school they go to

          • Mike Stevens

            “I would willingly allow them to participate in such a trial, as would the parents of just about all the kids I know at the school they go to.”

            Ok, the proposed prospective study would require the following, in order to be an appropriate and unbiased way of looking at vaccination outcomes:
            1. Randomised
            2. Double blinded
            3. Placebo controlled

            So you would willingly enter your kids into such a study?
            Even when there is a 50:50 chance they could be getting real vaccine, and not placebo, and a 100% certainty you wouldn’t know which study arm they were in?
            Pull the other one, Barz.

          • JGC

            So you would consent to your unvaccinated children being vaccinated as part of a prospective study–is that what you’re saying?

            Not that it matters : conducting a prospective study would still be unethical and IRB’s could not approve them.

          • Barzini

            No of course I would never let them be vaccinate

            but there are a huge number of unvaccinated kids in the US – we could easily start comparing health outcomes between vaxxed and non vaxxed populations

            Until we do I won’t be vaccinating

            If you do insist on vaccinating – at least space out the shots

          • JGC

            “No of course I would never let them be vaccinate”

            See the problem? To conduct a prospective vaxxed versus un-vaxxed study requires enrolling unvaccinated subjects, then randomly assigning them to subject cohorts which will or will not receive vaccines. Those administering the vaccinations, those receiving the vaccinations, and those recording the study endpoints must also all be blinded to which cohort a subject is in.

            So you’ve made it clear you would not consent to your child participating because there would be the possibility they would receive vaccines. And the rest of us would not consent because there is the possibility our children would not receive vaccines and remain vulnerable to infectious disease.

            And IRB’s could not sign off because the study would be unethical: it would require putting children at risk of infectious disease by withholding prophylactic vaccinations.

            “but there are a huge number of unvaccinated kids in the US – we could easily start comparing health outcomes between vaxxed and non vaxxed populations”

            What you’re describing are retrospective epidemiologic studies, and these have been done at very large scales by multiple independent researchers, academic institutes, public and private public health agencies, etc., in multiple nations over decades. None have identified evidence suggesting that the risk associated with routine childhood vaccination exceeds the risk associated with remaining vulnerable to infection.

            “If you do insist on vaccinating – at least space out the shots”
            Do you have actual evidence demonstrating that vaccinating according to the current schedule increases risk, rather than simply leaving children unprotected against serious infectious diseases for an extended period of time for no reason?

          • Barzini

            Thanks for clarifying…….

            I didn’t realize studies had been made in the US on the health outcomes of children that have followed the full CDC schedule and children who have never been vaccinated

            Can you provide a link to these ‘investigations’?

          • JGC

            I suggest you start with the following as an introduction to the type of retrospective studies that have been conducted:

            Madsen et al’s A Population-Based Study of Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccination and Autism, PMID: 12421889, which looked at the possibility of increased risk of ASD associated MMR vaccination, comparing outcomes for literally all children born in Denmark from January 1991 through December 1998 versus vaccination status.

            DeStefano et al’s Increasing exposure to antibody-stimulating proteins and polysaccharides in vaccines is not associated with risk of autism. PMID:
            23545349.
            Now, about your evidence demonstrating that spacing the vaccination schedule out longer would do anything other than leave children unprotected for an unnecessarily extended period of time?

          • Barzini

            So as I presumed you were lying

            No studies comparing the health outcomes of children which have followed the CDC schedule and those who have never been vaccinated have ever been carried out

            Until they have, me and my family will be staying vaccine free

          • JGC

            I haven’t lied: I stated that large scale retrospective epidemiologic studies addressing vaccine safety have been conducted by multiple researchers in multiple nations over decades. I’ve provided you with citations to two of them, whose bibliography sections will offer links to others, I support of that claim.
            Now, your evidence that spacing out the vaccine schedule will do anything other than leave children at risk of serious infectious disease would be what exactly?

          • Mike Stevens

            “Until they have, me and my family will be staying vaccine free”

            But Barzini, when will you get your kids to have their livers removed?
            You were paranoid about the formaldehyde in vaccines, calling it a toxic poison that no child of yours would ever have.
            Yet on a daily basis, their livers are generating around 100 times the amount of formaldehyde than exists in any vaccine! You are letting them get progressively poisoned, while you sit idly by, twiddling your thumbs commenting on the internet instead of finding an intensive care unit to perform haemofiltration and a surgeon to do total hepatectomy.

            Call yourself a concerned parent? I think not.

    • FallsAngel

      It is untrue that Amish kids don’t get vaccinated. 85% of Amish families have at least one kid who has received at least one dose of vaccine.
      https://www. verywell. com/amish-vaccinate-autism-rates-lower-3971479
      http://amishamerica. com/do-amish-vaccinate-their-children/
      http://blogs. plos. org/thepanicvirus/2011/06/28/anecdotal-amish-dont-vaccinate-claims-disproved-by-fact-based-study/

  • jimmygulag

    i go to doctor. Nurse says there will be short wait. wanna vaccination? i go for what? she says flu.
    did you? oh yeah, we all did in here. i look around. maybe 8-10 personnel. whole clinic? oh yes.
    4 floors. forty not counting doctors. who come and go. any one get the flu.
    most of us. c’mon…MOST of you.
    y’know the vaccine is dead flu virus. i know. maybe dead is not dead in viruses. they found a virus in the body of King Tut y’know.
    she laughed. i cried.
    you can get used to .GOV perfidy. everyone wants to go to heaven.
    nobody wants to die.
    my daughter hates shots and never gets the flu.
    Look up WHO tetanus scandal in Guatemala 1953: guess WHO? Rockefeller sterilized 150,000 mayan women.

    • FallsAngel

      Look up WHO tetanus scandal in Guatemala 1953: guess WHO? Rockefeller sterilized 150,000 mayan women.

      Not that urban legend again! It pops up all over, just like the zombies, with different years, different countries. It’s a lie.
      http://scienceblogs. com/insolence/2015/03/23/no-lawrence-solomon-unicef-and-who-are-not-trying-to-sterilize-women-with-tetanus-vaccines/

      Like all urban legends, it gets its misinformation mixed up, too. There was some unethical experimentation going on in Guatemala in the 1950s, but it didn’t involve vaccines.
      https://en. wikipedia. org/wiki/Guatemala_syphilis_experiment
      I know it’s Wiki, but it does have references.

      • jimmygulag

        yeah. maybe not true…maybe fake news. but i remember this story years ago. way before internet lies and bad news ever was, back when all news was good news and true, and hemingway was full of life…and girls wore skirts and played tennis and their skirts flew up….
        but i digress. i do know the Cia was attached to drug dealers in Burma, Laos, Colombia, Afghanistan, S. Asia and Turkey, Kosovo, Albania…and if any of those little refineries of smack were making drugs i’m not taking any!~~

        and if any of that was not true they would tell us for sure.

        • FallsAngel

          “way before internet lies and bad news ever was”

          There were always ways of getting out fake news. Ever heard of the National Enquirer? Chain letters? Passing notes? One day, I was listening to a call-in show about this on NPR, way before Kellyanne and her “alternative facts”. A caller asked the host how urban legends were transmitted before the internet. The host said, “We used smoke signals”.

          • jimmygulag

            The world is a mixture of lies and truth, and even the lies are telling us something truthful in a way. that the source is foul. and that we better check our own facts. not you, but all of us. all the time. and that is good. otherwise we get lazy and dependent upon vast structures that are getting polluted from the top. a healthy scepticism is an essential to a democracy or a free people.
            the king has no clothes on for sure: the internet being king now. not Trump who changes his mind so fast we have all lost the ability to even hear him anymore.

          • As I’m sure you know:

            Also,

            Back in the day, when you wanted something to be announced to the whole town, you wrote a note or letter, depending on how much you had to say, to the editor of the local paper. Sometimes it was accepted to go in the paper, sometimes not.

            Then there was ‘Adam’. When his thing wasn’t accepted (and after printing was readily available to the masses), he wrote his own letter and passed them around to people who looked likely to advance/support the cause.

            And in that moment, twins were born – the political pamphlet and targeted advertising.

  • JJV

    I would like to ask Mr. Posey to look at Finland ( University of Tampere, Vaccine Research Center) where such study has been going on for several years already.
    And so far the outcome seems to be very clear between vaccinated and unvaccinated population: those who are not covered by any vaccine protection, have got old illnessis like measles back while the vaccinated group have been totally healthy.

    To find out more about this and other researches, please visit their website.

    • Barzini

      It’s not a question of whether vaccines work – it’s a question of the side effects of vaccines and their impact on overall health outcomes

      Accutane (which was developed as a brain chemotherapy drug) is brilliant at curing acne – unfortunately it also has a long list of devastating side effects – so do most other pharmaceuticals, including vaccines

      Some children’s lives are devastated by vaccines – until we understand more about why that happens there’s no way I’m taking that risk with my perfectly healthy kids – especially not to avoid a harmless childhood illness like chicken pox and measles

      • JJV

        Do you understand what you read?
        I did say TOTALLY healthy, right?
        If they would have gotten some side effects, they would not have been totally healthy, haven’t they?

        Chicken pox and measles harmless? Well, certainly not but perhaps all the info haven’t reached you yet. One of these days…. One of these days… 🙂

        • Barzini

          Nothing is technically harmless – for example diarrhea kills untold thousands of people a year

          In the grand scheme of things, in Western nations, the chances of severe harm from chicken pox or measles in practically zero

          Vaccines destroy some children’s lives – we don’t understand why yet

          Until we do I’m not taking that risk, if you want to then go for it, no one is stopping you

          At least space out the shots though – that way you significantly reduce the chance of a severe reaction

          • President Borat

            yes we do understand why vaccines destroy children’s lives, and anyone else’s too. IT’S LISTED ON THE MANUFACTURER’S FDA APPROVED WARNING LABEL. look up the “MMR” label and see what the FDA warning says. It’s listed by the U.S. Dept of Health as the cause of many injuries and diseases like diabetes, encephalopathy, nervous system disorders, gastrointestinal problems, and every symptom of autism that has a different name because you can’t call anything “autism” since that’s not an officially approved word.

          • JJV

            Duh!
            If you want to take a step so far out, then Yeah; no one survives. Eventually we all will die…vaccinated or not vaccinated.
            Peace to your simple soul!

          • Barzini

            Enjoy poisoning your family…..hope it works out for you

            I won’t be doing that

          • JJV

            Sure. We both are free to choose.
            Enjoy poisoning your family with your ignorance.
            I won’t be doing that.
            I have nothing more to say about this.
            Have a great day 🙂

          • Barzini

            heavy metals – awesome for kids

          • JJV

            Hahaha
            I hope your brainfart gave you the relief you needed to feel good 😉

          • Mike Stevens

            “heavy metals – awesome for kids”
            Then perhaps we should start adding them to vaccines.

          • Jonathan is bored.

            But we do “put” them in vitamins…like B12.

          • JGC

            “In the grand scheme of things, in Western nations, the chances of severe harm from chicken pox or measles in practically zero”

            And why is that, Barzini? Oh, that’s right: it’s because in those nations children are routinely vaccinated against chickenpox.

        • President Borat

          you have to be kidding, the manufacturer’s warning label specifically identifies the proven risks which are PLAINLY LISTED THEREON.

          – brain and nervous damage

          -diabetes

          -sever arthrities

          -gastointestinal disorders

          ever hear of “Vaccine Court”? it gives out millions of dollars each year in awards, just in the USA and that’s within the strictest legal fiction of what makes a “vaccine injury”. Show up paralyzed one day too late and they’re off the hook, not a “legal vaccine injury”.

          (ALMOST) EVERY SINGLE CASE OF CHILDHOOD “SUDDEN DEATH”, AUTISM, ENCEPHALOPATHY, DIABETES AND PARALYSIS IS ONLY CAUSED BY VACCINATION.

          • JJV

            You’re talking in theoretical terms.
            I was stating actual, plain fact of the study.
            What’s wrong with you Americans?
            I really start to think your educational system is insuffient to give you even the basic of logical thinking.
            In that case, welcome to Finland where we have one of the best educational systems in the world!

          • President Borat

            The manufacturer warning label is not theoretical. It is the result of systematic reporting to a vaccine injury system the reflects a population which may be 100 times larger than Finland. It is approved by the FDA which is the federal drug and food safety agency for the united states.

            the millions of children everywhere who have clearly been injured by these “vaccines” are all around us, to be seen up close and in person. I have no idea what people are doing different in Finland if indeed there is a difference. You might have different vaccine products, different schedules, better treatment afterwards., better immune systems to begin with. Or it could all be bullshyte is more likely.

          • JJV

            Once again: I was solely stating the fact from that precise study in Finland.
            The reflecting population in the U.S may be a million times larger than in Finland, but it still doesn’t change the outcome of that study.
            If you don’t understand it now, then nothing I’ll say will help you get it.
            I give up!
            President? Lol

          • President Borat

            I understand that it’s criminally stupid to inject children with poison.

          • ProudAmerican9

            To inject any living creature with poison. These same horrible damages and deaths happen to vaxxed animals, too.

          • AutismDadd

            Americans are sheeple and that’s good for vaccine sales.

          • Mike Stevens
          • Jason

            It’s funny that drug companies are trusted when they print potential side effects but not at all trusted when they talk about how low those risks are or efficacy of vaccines.

          • President Borat

            because one is real and the other a sales pitch. a risk has 100% chance of happening when it occurs. There is 100% chance to avoid that risk when the cause is 100% absent. I’m not likely to fall on a measles injection and I’m less likely to suffer a bad reaction to the measles. Someone tells me “these are the proven risks but don’t worry it’s not likely” and there is no counterbalance in any benefit at all is a bad chance to fail. And no I do not believe the statistics because that is impossible to measure or define while a real result is easy to identify. It’s not a question of trust, unless you mean Thursday is a question of blind faith.

          • Jason

            See what I mean?? Funny.

          • President Borat

            in other words, you have no answer

          • Jason

            That was my answer.

          • Mike Stevens

            Difficult to answer him when he hasn’t posed a question, either, just an incoherent plate of word salad!

          • President Borat

            I realize that

          • JGC

            Citations truly, madly, desperately needed.
            Why don’t you start by providing the evidence demonstrating vaccines are causally associated with ASD?
            I mean, you do actually have some–right?

          • President Borat

            ITS ON THE DAMN LABEL! All of those reactions are in the autism spectrum, or many of them at least. Brain Damage Nervous Damage Stomach Damage the list is too long.

          • JGC

            “ITS ON THE DAMN LABEL!”

            What label, and where on that label is it found?

            “All of those reactions are in the autism spectrum, or many of them at least”

            Diabetes isn’t an autism spectrum disorder, encephalopathy isn’t an autism spectrum disorder, sudden death isn’t an autism spectrum disorder,

            Paralysis isn’t an autism spectrum disorder.

            Brain damage isn’t an autism spectrum disorder (and autism doesn’t represent brain damage–it’s a neurodevelopmental disorder).

            Nervous damage, stomach damage are not autism spectrum disorders.

          • President Borat

            yes brain damage and nervous damage and stomach damage are in the autism spectrum because I know several autistic children with exactly those maladies and that’s how thousands and thousands of parents who have autistic children describe the conditions which affect their kids. you just want to quibble about words. call it “rumpitis” if you like. “Autism” is a new name for hamburgers.

          • Belinda Eastmond

            Tsk, tsk – confusing concurrence with causality. Autism is a neurological disorder, not brain damage. Two utterly different things. Autism affects the way the nervous system receives and interprets stimuli, not how the brain processes the information. Autists may very well APPEAR, to the layman, to have brain damage or nervous damage but that doesn’t mean they have it.

          • Belinda Eastmond

            I don’t know the exact percentage of children who have a serious reaction to a vaccine. I do know that it’s a tiny fraction of the percentage who would have a serious reaction to the disease if they were to catch it. I also know from personal experience what it’s like to have mumps, chicken pox, and measles even without any of the complications that can occur.
            Some people, including very young babies and frail elderly, cannot get vaccinated. So you don’t want to vaccinate your kids? Fine, don’t. But don’t send them out into public where they can be exposed – for their sakes – nor to school where they could start an epidemic among kids who also weren’t vaccinated, or for whom it didn’t take.
            The reason for the “vaccine court” awards (I’m accepting your word that they exist) is that no matter how rare the severe reactions, some kids are going to have them. And traditional insurance, being profit-driven, is probably not going to cover their treatment fully – if at all. So the government budgets some funds to reassure parents that if theirs is the kid it happens to, at least their treatment won’t bankrupt the family.
            By the way, what documentation do you have for your last claim? I find it unbelievable in the extreme. SIDS, for example, has been around since long before infant vaccinations, so they occurred before the babies had received any vaccinations. Do you have any documentable facts at all, or only biased articles blowing off steam in every way they can think of?

        • AutismDadd

          How many vaccines are given prior to entering school? How many did you get and how many KILLER DISEASES did you survive?

      • JGC

        “It’s not a question of whether vaccines work – it’s a question of the side effects of vaccines and their impact on overall health outcomes”

        Exactly: it’s all about relative risk, and the current body of evidence indicates that the risk associated with routine childhood vaccination is orders of magnitude lower than the risk associated with remaining vulnerable to infection by the diseases they protect against.

        • AutismDadd

          Strawman and its used straw full of animal dung.

    • President Borat

      so what? it’s better to get natural measles than vaccine induced measles. especially compared to getting measles at age 7 against getting a shot of monkey pus as a newborn.

      • JGC

        “it’s better to get natural measles than vaccine induced measles”

        MMR vaccination does result in measles infection: it instead stimulates an immune response resulting a the development of protective antibody titers against measles.

        “…getting a shot of monkey pus as a newborn”
        Who is it you believe is injecting newborns with monkey pus?

        • President Borat

          that sounds like a measles infection

          • JGC

            Infection:
            1 the invasion of the body by pathogenic microorganisms that reproduce and multiply, causing disease by local cellular injury, secretion of a toxin, or antigen-antibody reaction in the host.
            Vaccination:
            1 any injection of attenuated or killed microorganisms, such as bacteria, viruses, or rickettsia, administered to induce immunity or to reduce the effects of associated infectious diseases.
            (Mosby’s Medical Dictionary, 9th edition. © 2009, Elsevier)

          • President Borat

            it’s like an infection. inducing the same reaction as an infection using the same thing that causes the infection is like an infection. you want to play word games and split semantic hairs. I want to save babies and children from dying and lifelong injury. At least not to provoke it myself personally. “First Do No Harm” remember?

          • JGC

            I’m not playing word games–words have meaning, and details matter. Infectious diseases and routine vaccination both induce an immune response, but that’s the extent of their similarity.

            ‘I want to save babies and children from dying and lifelong injury”
            They why are you so opposed to one of the most, if not the single most, medical interventions ever developed to do just that–safe and effective routine childhood vaccination?

          • President Borat

            there are no safe and effective vaccinations- even the FDA published their list of adverse and complicating reactions. it is far more safe and effective to keep a clean environment and a health immune system. What if everyone who will do badly under a wild strain will be likely to fare no better under a vaccine strain? Or anything remotely close?

            Why are you so worried about ordinary childhood illness and diseases that only exist in poor countries?

            Here’s one that got me thinking lately- why is the MMR reaction being induced all at once in young babes when the wild virus seems to appear in older children and rarely at the same time?

            Then I recently learned that polio will cause a serious complication in LESS THAN ONE PERCENT of cases- that’s according to the WHO. Yet EVERY case requires basically the presence of feacal matter or “secretions”. How likely is that?? With good sewage and clean water and daily butt washing? How many of even the less than one percent were also complicated by other factors? And how do you treat polio once it does hit, which should be vanishingly rare.

        • Err…

          “MMR vaccination does result”…

          I think you missed a critical word there.

          • JGC

            Wow–that’s very different. Thanks, fixed it.

    • AutismDadd

      And the narcolepsy ?

    • sabelmouse

      coping well with short lived infections is being healthy.
      the measure of real health is NOT being chronically ill.

  • Linda

    I just finished reading DPT Shot in the Dark, written in the 80’s and it is probably the best book of four on the topic of vaccines I have read in that it explains the many reasons why this travesty of over vaccination has happened and despite adverse reactions, only gets worse.

    • Chris Preston

      A Shot in the Dark by Harris Coulter and Barbara Loe Fisher. Neither have any useful expertise to write a book on vaccines. Coulter’s Ph.D. was in political science. His most noteworthy other activity was writing about and promoting homeopathy. Fisher is a self-declared “autism mom” who created an anti-vaccine advocacy website based entirely around her personal belief that her son’s learning difficulties were caused by the DPT vaccine.
      Most of what they wrote was wrong. See sciencebasedmedicine .org/a-shot-in-the-dark-revisited/

      • Linda

        This book is well researched. One does not have to be a scientist to use the research and understand it. Few doctors know enough to write on the topic. The book covered far more than the actual vaccination. It covered the medical field that did not want to report adverse reactions; those who knew there were problems and would not switch to the acellular version that Japan developed; and especially the refusal to err on the side of caution or halt the requirement that children be vaccinated at such a young age. While in the UK the children did not receive the shot til 2 years of age, the US insisted on 2 weeks to 2 months and then four more shots. Even when children had serious adverse reactions, the poorly informed physicians continued revaccinating on the schedule resulting in irreparable harm. High pitched screams for hours and then falling into a deep coma like sleep for 12-24 hours was told to the parents as normal! But most of all, it shows why we cannot trust vaccine and policy makers with our children. The pediatrician is your best friend until your child is damaged and then they won’t talk to you or even allow you back in the office. Have you read the book and were you able to read it without bias. The science behind vaccines is not the problem. It is policy makers and makers with profit motives that misuse the science that are the problem. There is not the time for blind trust in either as the consequences always fall on the parents.

        • FallsAngel

          What a bunch of BS! This stupid urban legend that some country, usually Japan but here the UK, doesn’t/didn’t vaccinate for some disease(s) until age 2 JUST WON’T DIE! (Sorry for the all-caps, I’m on my kindle.)

          Take a look at the schedule of the UK or any other country! Some may wait until 3months but no country waits until age 2. Oh, Japan did for a short time to avoid having to compensate for SIDS following DTP (whole cell, mind you) as their program called for. What they got instead was a pertussis epidemic with deaths so they reinstated infant immunization.

          The US schedule never called for starting DTP at two weeks.

        • Chris Preston

          This book is well researched.

          Clearly not, given that most of the book is wrong.

          One does not have to be a scientist to use the research and understand it.

          Absolutely, but in Coulter and Fisher’s case they are antithetical to what the research is and refuse to accept it in favour of their own view of the world.

          those who knew there were problems and would not switch to the acellular version that Japan developed

          In fact it turned out that the whole cell version was not really less safe than the acellular version. However, the switch was made as the acellular version would have lower probabilities of side effects. Sadly, it has turned out that the acellular version is less effective meaning the change has not helped.

          While in the UK the children did not receive the shot til 2 years of age

          This is completely untrue. The recommendation prior to 1990 was for the first vaccination to be at 3 months of age followed by boosters before 5 months and before 11 months. It had been this way since the 1960s. They dropped the 18 month booster in the early 1960s, because parents were not getting the 4th shot for their children. There is a good review article on this: Pertussis immunisation and control in England and Wales, 1957 to 2012: a historical review.

      • Barzini

        MDs know next to nothing about vaccines either

        Coverage at medical school is practically non-existent

        • Chris Preston

          And that makes Coulter and Fisher’s book somehow correct?

          What a silly comment.

          If I wanted to know about the research basis for the safety and efficacy of vaccines, I would go to the medical literature. However, I have observed that the majority of MDs that I have met do have a reasonable passable knowledge about vaccines and vaccination. Their observation that current childhood vaccinations are mostly effective and mostly safe reflects exactly what the scientific literature has found.

        • Mike Stevens

          And which medical school did you attend, Barzini?

  • JGC

    “It is not safe to give any of what is below to a human or dog.”

    You are aware that the fundamental organizing principle of toxicology is “The dose makes the poison”, are you not?

    Consider aluminum phosphate, used in some vaccine formulations as an adjuvant: what evidence demonstrates that it is toxic or otherwise harmful at exposure levels achievable by routine childhood vaccination?

    “Similarly, aluminum sulfate is known by its components, sulfuric acid, an extremely carcinogenic and corrosive acid, and aluminum salt, a neurotoxin”

    Just like table salt is known by its components: sodium, which reacts explosively on contact with water and chlorine, a toxic gas. You won’t however die in a flaming cloud of poisonous gas if you add salt to your chicken soup, because compounds and the elements they are made up of exhibit very different properties.

    So once again:: what evidence demonstrates that any of the ingredients on your list are toxic or otherwise harmful at exposure levels achievable by routine childhood vaccination?

    You do actually have some, right? Your argument does take some form other than “Ooooh…ingredients. Scary stuff!”?

    • Jonathan Hughes

      I am not talking about table salt. Acetone is in them. That is in lacquer. People put that on wood. People are not supposed to breath the fumes. Weed killer is in them too called Glyphosphate. Argue your way out of that. I gave an alternate to all of that. It is best used to prevent symptoms.

      • JGC

        Acetone also occurs naturally in a wide variety of foods such as onions, grapes, cauliflower, tomatoes, milk, cheese, beans, and peas,
        Dietary exposure to acetone ranges from 0.032 to 0.16 mg/kg per day.

        The human body also produces acetone continuously as part of normal biological processes. During it’s first year of life, a newborn will produce between 121 and 387 mg/kg per day.

        Acetone when present in a vaccine formulation is found in trace amounts i.e., in an amount too low to be measured. The amount of excess acetone a child could be exposed to as the result of receiving a 0.5 mL vaccine inoculation is insignificant, orders of magnitude less than his body deals with without difficulty every day.

        • Jonathan Hughes

          You neglected weed killer called Glyphosphate. They that will give that will giver anything. Pharmaceuticals ls is connected to Pharmacia which is associated with sorcery – witch craft. Don’t suffer a witch to live.

          • JGC

            It’s glyphosate, not glyphosphate, and to the best of my knowledge glyphosate isn’t present even in trace amounts in vaccine formulations.

          • Jonathan Hughes

            Sorry for the misspelling. Glyphosate Found in Childhood Vaccines – Eco Watch., That is just one web page. This does not change the fact that Pharmaceuticals is associated with witch craft that the bible talks about. Health is not in a shot. Shots are magic.

          • JGC

            I’ve been to the Eco Watch page, I’ve been to the Microbe Inotech website, but I can find no evidence that glyphosate has been found in children’s vaccines. (The fact that the claim is made by Stephanie Seneff, who’s made many demonstrably invalid claims about the safety of Glyphosate in the past, is certainly cause for concern.)

            Could you provide a citation for the original peer-reviewed publication providing the evidence used to draw this conclusion may be found?

            I note that the claim is that glyphosate is found in parts per billion quantities, from 0.107 to 2.671 ppb in different vaccines, and then I see the claim that these concentrations have been confirmed by ELISA. ELISA assays for glyphosate are prone to false positives, and are validated only for screening, not quantifying. Only LC/MS/MS testing methods are validated for quantification.

            Whoever’s trying to produce evidence of glyphosate contamination in vaccines is literally doing it all backwards.

          • Jonathan Hughes

            Vaccines are sorcery – wichcraft. Let that sink in. Pharmakeia: Sorcery, Pharmaceuticals & the Roots of Modern Day Drug Part 4 YouTube.

          • JGC

            Okay…letting it sink in…processing….got it.
            Jonathan mistakenly believes that modern pharmaceutical science is a kind of magic.
            meanwhile, will you provide the citation to the original peer-reviewed study reporting glyphosate contamination in children’s vaccines ?

          • Jonathan Hughes

            I repeat. Had vaccinations be healthy we would have healthy people around with no one dying from vaccinations or having debilitating reactions to the vaccinations. People are being lied to. People need to do exactly what I have typed. Vaccinations need to be banned for all life.

          • JGC

            ‘Had vaccinations be healthy we would have healthy people around with no one dying from vaccinations or having debilitating reactions to the vaccinations.”
            Your “Nirvana Fantasy” logical fallacy is noted and dismissed.
            The question regarding vaccine safety, as it is with all other medical interventiona, is one of relative risk. The question that needs to be addresses isn’t “Is this intervention completely without risk?” but instead “How does the risk associated with this intervention compare to the risk of going without it?” (
            In the case of vaccines what needs to be compared is the level of risk associated with routine children vaccination compared to the level of risk associated with remaining vulnerable to infectious diseases, and any rational evaluation of relative comes down overwhelmingly in support of routine childhood vaccination.

          • AutismDadd

            What a shill bot

          • Also, not okay to eat =/= not okay to apply topically.

            Take Germolene, for example. You shouldn’t eat it but it’s fine to put on cuts. I don’t see why a similar logic can’t apply to injections.

          • Jonathan is bored.

            Ugh….again with this. φαρμακεία is used exactly once in the Bible. It is also nominative singular so if it refers to a drug it refers to exactly one drug. The proper plural is φαρμακειόν and while the term can reference a drug it isn’t the most common way to do this in Greek. That would be: φαρμακεόν.

            Not to mention that anyone reading that verse in Revelation should easily be able to tell that it is speaking figuratively about Babylon swaying the minds of nations in a book which is already heavily figurative.

          • Jonathan Hughes

            One drug or many they are the same. They are drugs. We would have exceptional health with no illness names had drugs be so wonderful. The death rate connected to drugs would not be said to be higher than recreational drugs. People promoting drugs made people think a bat will get caught in their hair when fling ariound in a room. That is a blatant lie. Bats will not fly into each other. People are believing deliberate liars. Those liars make people flail their hands over their heads looking idiotic when a bat is flying around. I laugh at them and shake my head at them same time.

          • Jonathan is bored.

            One drug or many they are the same

            Well if you want to claim drugs are sorcery then that claim stems from a misunderstanding of Greek.

          • Jonathan Hughes

            Babylon did fall. The Babylonians thought a 300 foot tall wall would protect them.

  • President Borat

    I enjoy watching you squirm because you’ve been exposed for a liar and a cheat.

    • Mike Stevens

      Can I ask you what causes syphilis?

      • President Borat

        you can look it up on the WHO website just like I did for polio.

        • Mike Stevens

          I know what causes it, and what the experts agree causes it.
          I want to see if you know what causes it.

          ??

          • President Borat

            according to the WHO website, 40 % of all reported cases were homosexuals. That gives me a pretty good idea.

  • A Judith socky? j/k
    It’s scary that there are more of them out there.

  • Kulu Sadira

    My two sons were born in 1974 and 1977, respectively. Back then their mother and I were strict Macrobiotics (although, no longer) as were most all of our friends with young kids. Neither of my sons nor any of our friends kids received a single vaccination. All have enjoyed great health their entire lives. I realize that this is strictly anecdotal, so proves nothing, but interesting none the less.

    • Brian

      Evidence of community immunity! Remember to thank your neighbors who vaccinated.

      • sabelmouse

        great health they said. not ” never had a short lived infectious illness”.

      • AutismDadd

        What rot. Vaccine pushers take credit they haven’t earned. If the flu barely happens they claim it was their vacs. They did that with H1N1

  • JJV

    As European, Im used to intellectual debates. I have no need to participate in low level debates where some intellectually less fortune individuals make comments to what I originally said, that are plain stupid.

  • Sandra Schmelzer

    JGC, how many children with ASD do you have? Your comments scream that you have not even SEEN a child in the spectrum in your life.